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Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: To what degree does it have an influence? If there was a problem, as there is in this case, could the HSE exercise control and get an agency to change direction?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Appointments must be made with the HSE's approval.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: When that does not happen, what recourse does it have?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: What does that mean?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: The HSE does not have the power to stop an agency from doing something. It does not want to withdraw funding, as that would hit services, and the agencies know this.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: The HSE threatened to withdraw funding, but only to an amount of between €200,000 and €300,000.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Which the CRC could find itself.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I understand that, but how strong are the service level agreements if a section 38 organisation can appoint someone in complete disregard of the HSE's letters and sanctions until such time as the issue becomes a crisis and needs to be addressed as such?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Ms McGuinness is implying that the HSE has a soft power over the governance of the organisations because it is giving them money.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I am sorry, but I have a final question.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I was referring to the Central Remedial Clinic. One of the e-mails effectively told the HSE to get lost.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Did the CRC mislead the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Did Mr. Kiely raise it with the board?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: However, Mr. Kiely was asked to leave the boardroom.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: To clarify, did the witness say that when he raised the issue with the board, he was asked to leave the board?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Did Mr. Kiely raise it at the board?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Did Mr. Kiely raise it as a concern as CEO?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Can I clarify something Mr. Kiely said? Did he say he raised that payment with the board of the CRC?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Is it ten years or more?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: It was shot down by the board.

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