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Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (27 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: May I seek clarification? Please forgive my ignorance, but our amendment and the other amendments relate to section 4, yet they are being discussed in section 1. Why is that?

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (27 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: We want to discuss our amendment when we reach section 4 because that is the section to which it relates.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (27 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: We wish to have our amendment No. 4 debated when we reach section 4. I am seeking clarity. Why have amendments to section 4 been included in section 1?

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (27 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: I fully understand. The amendment is on activating relevant sections.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (27 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: If I allow my imagination to run away, I can visualise the possibility of Sinn Féin going into government. Sinn Féin sees it as a probability. A book could be written about the positions it has taken, which it will then have to be turn around and flip-flop and justify in the context-----

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (27 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: It is very relevant.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (27 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: It is the nature of the political system that Senator Cullinane makes points about the parties in Government, who were previously in opposition and who opposed much of what was proposed in the context of this amendment. I do not want to bring up the quotes but they make for interesting and somewhat scary reading. I refer to the barbs and missiles launched at the then Fianna Fáil Minister....

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (27 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: I move amendment No. 4: In page 5, between lines 22 and 23, to insert the following subsections: "(5) Section 4 shall come into operation on such a day or days as the Minister for Social Protection may appoint by order or orders either generally or with reference to any particular purpose or provision but not before a statutory scheme of free comprehensive childcare available to all children...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (27 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: This provision provides that people who within one, two or three years will be retiring and do not have the 520 contributions required, will be able to top up their contributions. Am I correct that only contributions made up to when the person reached 65 years will be reckonable and that a person will retire at age 65 years but will not be entitled to the pension until 66 years of age? I am...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (27 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: Perhaps the Minister would respond to my query.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (27 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: To clarify, if somebody is in his or her 65th year and discovers that the commencement date of employment does not allow the full number of contributions to be made, he or she will fall short and not be entitled to receive 100% of the contributory pension but 85% or 90% of it. I hope we are talking about the same issue. In the context of contributions made since the commencement of work, is...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (30 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: I am always interested in Senator van Turnhout's contributions because of her own expertise in this area. We discussed this matter briefly and I was waiting for her and, perhaps, she intends to do it at a later stage. The Minister has emphasised that the reason the section is being introduced is to bring us into line with European countries. However, at the same time the Minister has...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (30 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: All I am saying is that the reality on the ground is that the Minister's Department has provided capital grants for which the applications are far in excess. If the applications are far in excess, that does not square the circle? How can one say there is a capacity if applications are far in excess? This is for the provision of more child care places right across the country. I do not...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (30 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: What figures did the Minister give? How can one argue with the logic that if there is a sum of money provided by the Government under a capital scheme and that the applications are far in excess of what the Government has the capacity to provide, the Senator can turn the argument to say there is enough capacity in the system. There is not enough capacity in the system. There is a need for...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (30 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: I will not accept an irrelevant point of order. I am making a political point in answer to a political point made by the Senator. This is more directed at the Minister than the Senator in that the whole crux of what we have attempted to debate has not been just about the implementation of the scheme but linking it to an enhanced child care environment. It may sound boring and repetitive...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (30 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: We are opposing section 5.

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (30 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: I ask the Minister to explain section 7, which gives me the opportunity to raise the wider issue of community employment schemes. There was uproar in the voluntary sector when reductions were announced to CE schemes and the payments associated with them. The Minister rushed quickly to bridge the gap by indicating that she will not endanger existing schemes until such time as a review had...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (30 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: I thank the Minister for her update on the joint reviews. For years there were attempts by the Department which was formerly responsible for community employment schemes to dismantle them by bringing into focus an exclusively economic rationale, with cost benefit analyses, a reduction in participant numbers and terminations of those schemes deemed less than optimally effective. In that...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (30 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: I knew that would raise a few eyebrows. That approach was taken in the context of the bailout programme and the pressure to justify the schemes to the troika as being entirely about upskilling participants in order to help them to enter the workforce. Although I speak from the perspective of a rural representative, this issue does not align with a rural-urban divide. In fact, the arguments...

Seanad: Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) (30 Apr 2012)

Paschal Mooney: I am grateful for the Minister's remarks and I wish to make two brief points. In the context of her remarks about the troika and about the insistence and efficiencies, I suggest she would have a friend in court in the IMF, rather than perhaps among the ECB. The IMF was seen as the big bogeyman and when its officials came to this country there was all sorts of analyses suggesting they would...

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