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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 2:In page 8, between lines 23 and 24, to insert the following:"(2) Subsection (1)applies for the year of assessment 2016 and each subsequent year of assessment.". These three amendments are being discussed together because they all relate to a similar technical amendment which is to be made for the purposes of clarity, and to ensure that the provisions operate as...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: The Department of Social Protection, as is usual, conducted a social impact assessment of the welfare and income tax measures in budget 2016, with input from the Department of Finance and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. The main findings are that average household incomes will increase by 1.6% or €14 per week as a result of budget 2016; there are higher than average...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: Deputy Tóibín's argument only has validity if one believes in a society where everybody in the labour force gets paid the same. If everybody in the labour force gets paid the same, when tax reliefs are applied, everybody will get the same relief. If we believe in a labour force organised on the basis that people with additional responsibilities, in promotional posts or who work...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: Except in very general terms, there is not a crossover between the sympathetic way in which the Deputy outlined a particular case for an elderly person and the personal taxation measures in the budget. To return to the Deputy's original point, if we believe in a society where people get paid for their smarts, longer hours worked and the responsibilities taken on, as the Deputy suggests, to...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: No Minister for Finance goes into a budget without knowing he or she has a number of policy levers. To pass the equality test, all the policy levers with an influence must be pulled. It would not be possible to deliver very significant relief to people on low income but it is possible to do so when the minimum wage is increased, exempting those people from USC or reducing the rate. In that...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: Deputy Tóibín had to agree with me.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: Deputy Boyd Barrett has made many points. I will try to address at least some of them. First, Deputy Boyd Barrett suggested that there are people who are doing rather well, are getting well-paid, can pay their way and need no tax relief. That is true, but that was not the way it was in 2011 when we came to power. At the time, many middle-income people could not pay their way. They could...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: Deputy Boyd Barrett is referring to the people above the line. We will see. If he exempted the house, they could well afford to pay the wealth tax.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: Deputy Boyd Barrett's colleagues want to exempt the land, the stock and the house. What is left? Deputy Boyd Barrett is afraid to put into effect what he believes in. I do not believe in what he is saying in any way, but at least I am honest about it. I do not go chasing around and pretending on these issues. I will offer some examples. In 2016 it is expected that there will be 2.2...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: As I said at the time of last month's budget, the growth in the economy means that as politicians, we are now moving into the fortunate position where we have policy choices once again. We have come through a period when there were no policy choices. I agree that the Deputy has the right to put forward policy choices. It is just that I disagree with them. That is the argument. The Deputy...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: Income is not wealth. Income tax and USC are imposed on income. Wealth is a different thing. Wealth is stored income which one has not had to spend. The wealth of most people in Ireland, including those on very good incomes, is in the value of their family homes. That is where the wealth is. Most people do not have huge property assets beyond the family home. If I decide not to tax the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: No, I think the Deputy is trying to have it both ways. He represents a constituency where the value of family homes is the highest in the country. I think he is influenced by constituency considerations that are clouding his clear-cut ideological position. I think that is the case. Our system is already the most efficient in the OECD at improving direct income equality through the system...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: That is part of it as well. There are a lot of factors feeding into it. If the Deputy has a good idea on cheaper accommodation I will steal it from him any day of the week. I am one of the least ideological people around.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: That is a single person.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I do not have a lot of disagreement with Deputy McGrath. When we debated this on budget night I said to Deputy McGrath and Deputy Boyd Barrett that we are fortunate to have choices again. What Deputy McGrath proposes is one way of doing it, and there are certain advantages to it. However, the reason I opted for cuts in USC were twofold. Firstly, the rate of personal tax is the big...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I gave a strong return on USC. I am not saying that Deputy McGrath's approach could not be done and that a budget could not be brought in based on that approach, but I do not think it would represent incentives for the labour force; it would just be a way of giving some money back to people. In this budget I was interested in incentivising people, and it seems to be working. There is a...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I will read the briefing note which gives the overall position from the Department's perspective. We can then have a dialogue if that is necessary. It would appear from the wording of the proposed amendment that it is the Deputy's intention that all those earning up to €376 per week, which is just over the earnings of a full-time worker on the new minimum wage of approximately...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 4:In page 9, between lines 24 and 25, to insert the following:“(2) Subsection (1)* applies for the year of assessment 2016 and each subsequent year of assessment.”.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I will just address the tapering suggestion, which is the main difference between what I have done and what the Deputy proposes. The Deputy’s proposed amendment would involve the tapering out of the new earned income credit for individuals earning in excess of €80,000, with the credit to be completely extinguished when income reaches €100,000. The purpose of this credit...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2015: Committee Stage (17 Nov 2015)

Michael Noonan: I will read my briefing note for the Deputy. Over the past year I have responded to a number of parliamentary questions regarding the estimated cost of extending the PAYE-type credit to the self-employed. A number of different figures were quoted in these responses, including higher and lower costs relative to the credit introduced in budget 2016, depending on the specific question asked....

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