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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: Try and find an IT person under that wage structure. Trust me-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: I know it did but trying to find an appropriate one is difficult. I was there; I was that soldier. I am probably the only person inside here who was an IT manager.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: We dealt with this just before the Deputy came in.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: Before Senator Ahearn comes in, I am looking for clarification on a matter. I did not want to interrupt Mr. Ó Coigligh. With regard to all contracts, was the former director in place or were some of the contracts not signed before that, from memory? In fairness, I did not want to be incorrect. I do not think that statement is totally accurate but not deliberately so. I want to be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: I thought that. I wanted to make that correction. Second, I am looking for another clarification. On the assistant principal posts, were there not two assistant principal posts?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: So there were two rather than one.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: I wanted to make sure we were on the same page on both of those issues. There is one other matter, but I will come back to it. Senator Ahearn is next.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: To clarify, we are not wronging anyone because we have been down this road already. When the officials told the Department to cease, had that work been commissioned before then?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: And did they specifically ask whether there were any legacy issues? Probably not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: Okay, sorry Senator.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: Now Senator-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: We have to be careful there with use of language. I ask you to withdraw that word.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: I do not know, but it is not the one you used previously.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: Yes, that might work.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: I am not looking to go that far either. At the time it was-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: We have to be very clear here. At the time €60,000 was the amount. Subsequently another bill came in, by the looks of things, which made it nearly double that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: There is a lag there.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: I know. Just to be clear - and this is for clarity rather than in my time - when the council representatives were in here, at that time there was the €60,000 and they were not aware of the subsequent figure. Would that be accurate?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: I understand that. Mr. Kelly is saying they could have said €60,000 plus whatever the piece we had already commissioned before the Department told them to stop. At the time though, what the council representatives were actually aware of was just the €60,000. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport: Arts Council Grant Management IT System: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Alan Kelly: Senator, just for the record, will you withdraw the word?

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