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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

David Cullinane: That is the problem for me. The two HSE board members who dissented from the decision, Professor Deirdre Madden and Dr. Sarah McLoughlin, stated they "continued to have concerns regarding legal ownership of the site and building, and the governance and control of the proposed new maternity hospital" and this "led to our dissent from the Board's decision." They go on to say: "The advantages...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

David Cullinane: I never argued against any of that. I am stating the fact that we have companies within companies, several constitutions and directors coming from three different sources onto the new company being established. The Minister cannot credibly argue this is not a complicated legal scenario when he looks at all the documents that were published and which we had to go through. It is only...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

David Cullinane: It is because St. Vincent's does not want a HSE hospital but an independent hospital.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

David Cullinane: Maybe we should have St. Vincent's before us, but we will not have time if the Minister makes a decision next week.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: We should take it as read and move on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: I welcome Mr. Boylan and Mr. McGarr. I will start with Mr. McGarr. To follow up on the last line of questioning, my colleague stated that the Sisters of Charity will not give the land to the State. Am I right in saying that at this point, as we sit here today, the Sisters of Charity have divested all interest in the land and, in fact, the landowners are now St. Vincent's Healthcare Group?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: Bear with me. The landlord in this case is St. Vincent's Healthcare Group, which is a subsidiary of St. Vincent's Holdings.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: St. Vincent's Healthcare Group are the people we should be talking to because the landlord is not now the Sisters of Charity. If we are talking about ownership of the land and transfer of that land into public ownership, is it St. Vincent's Holdings and St Vincent's Healthcare Group we need to talk to?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: Is it fair to say St. Vincent's Holdings CLG will be an umbrella group of a number of different hospitals? It will have a portfolio of hospitals, including St. Vincent's public, St. Vincent's private, St. Michael's and now this new company that will be established, which is the national maternity hospital designated activity company, DAC. Will it be an umbrella group of a number of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: They will not be owned by the State but by that group.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: Okay. The question then is why. I ask Mr. Boylan to address my next question. Why will the St. Vincent’s group, either the healthcare group itself or the holdings company, not give the land to the State? If it is no longer about the Sisters of Charity and it is now about this group, why is it saying "No"? The Minister said today on the floor of the Dáil that he asked for the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: Would it be more probable that it simply does not want the HSE hospital on that land and wants it to be an independent voluntary hospital?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: The vast majority of the funding for St. Vincent's public hospital comes from the State. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: The vast majority of funding for the existing National Maternity Hospital on Holles Street comes from the State.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: The money to build this new hospital, variously estimated at between €800 million and €1 billion, will come from the HSE.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: Therefore, the HSE will be the funder but these guys are saying they do not want the HSE hospital on their site.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

David Cullinane: I have another question for Mr. McGarr. We have to ask the hard questions of everybody - all witnesses - obviously. The HSE legal team yesterday told us that the constitution of the parent company or owner companies - we have three different companies and constitutions, different boards, different directors and so on - was irrelevant because the directors of the new national maternity...

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