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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Did it talk to the Department of Finance about that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I know. My opening comments to Mr. McCarthy related to the potential fines if we do not meet those targets. They will come back and we will be looking at them in the Department of Finance accounts. I thought there would have been some rigorous analysis of whether the 100,000 target was viable. That is why I am trying to find out what relationship there is and what potential fines we might...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I understand that. In fact, I was surprised to see the number. I thought the big investment would be in public transport. It has a potential impact if it is an unrealistic target. I want to know what kind of rigour goes into setting those targets and what relationship the Department has with that because, as I said, it ends up in these accounts we have been looking at.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Will Mr. Hogan give us documentation about the rigour on this target?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: The section 110 special purpose vehicles, SPVs, have come very much into focus. With the war in Ukraine, we know that very large volumes of money flow, pretty much, through the International Financial Services Centre, IFSC in Dublin. This is largely unregulated activity. The Central Bank has oversight and has identified sanctioned entities. Has this action made it to the risks register in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Would Mr. Hogan accept that there is not transparency?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Can Mr. Hogan return to the committee with an answer to the question on the risks register, please?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: How many primary dealers does the NTMA have or is that information known? What kind of oversight does the Department have in that? What impact is there in not having an Irish-owned company as the primary dealer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Very quickly, did I hear Mr. Carville correctly when he said he had been seconded? Secondments are in the news in the past week and this information just jumped out at me.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: The five year rule that we heard about earlier this week is, therefore, not really an absolute one then. Is that the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: The remuneration comes from the Department as opposed to from-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: The staff are paid by the NTMA but the staff are seconded.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: That is what jumped out to most of us. On the table, there is quite a variation in the cost. Does that include land costs by county? For example, the third most expensive one was County Waterford. It may have been what they were building or whatever. If it is an average and that was a small number, that would be different.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Maybe we will ask HBFI for clarification on that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: We need to know whether there are projects that are not going to proceed because they are no longer viable and inflation costs have not been taken into consideration and TII has been notified of this. Ideally we want to see the projects done for the amount contracted. There would want to be a very good reason they would not proceed. We are starting to see points of concern that would add...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: What correspondence is this?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I have asked about the sanctions that might be applied, given that the contract is a two-sided process and that there is an obligation on the contractor's side. The contractor was slow to get the thing up and running, and we are now into an inflationary period. What I feel we are getting is an attitude of "Trust us" that all sanctions are being applied. This committee is required to...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I can probably ask UL representatives next week whether the Department has suspended funding, as I think it has done, and what it would take to reinstate that. Those are questions I can put to them next week. It may be worth alerting them that they are required to have responses to those questions as to what it would take to reinstate funding if it has been suspended.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: If we cannot see that report, is there an alternative route?

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