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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (12 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: That is fine. Does Great Ormond Street Hospital have a private facility?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (12 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: It is not abnormal internationally to have it like this.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (12 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: If the policy changes, this can revert back into-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (12 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: No one is going to have a hold on a piece of the hospital.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (12 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I know. I have attended many meetings at which this project has been discussed. Most of the issues have been exhausted. It is important to reiterate Dr. Curtis's point about the positive role of those who are delivering the hospital. I have made this point on many occasions. Perhaps the Chairman and the other members of the committee are aware of the state of Temple Street Hospital and...

Written Answers — Department of Children and Youth Affairs: Domestic Violence Refuges Provision (13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: 192. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs when a refuge (details supplied) will be fully operational again; the capacity it will have in terms of space and bed numbers for persons who wish to use it; if there is scope for children to accompany and stay with their guardians who may attend same; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [24696/19]

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: To follow up on Dr. Lynch's comments, is he suggesting there were no electronic records until two years ago? My understanding, based on the answers given to Deputy Cassells, is that the Department started its auditing two years ago. Was everything being filled in on paper before then? I would argue that electronic records started much earlier than two years ago.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: We are now in 2019. If we go back two years, we are in 2017. There were, therefore, three years of electronic records that were not being checked in terms of attendance versus headcount.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: In response to a question from Deputy Cassells, Dr. Lynch stated, "Pobal organises all of the schemes for us and it also carries out compliance work." Does Dr. Lynch believe Pobal did that job? If Pobal could not organise the scheme, and if it did not have either small or large providers using anything other than a pen and paper - which, by the looks of things, was completely inadequate -...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: What was at issue?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Dr. Lynch stated earlier that good value for money for the Exchequer was the focus up until 2015.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: However, the State was being overcharged. If children were being registered with facilities and not attending, then Pobal was overcharging when using public money.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: That is an astounding lack of governance. It is my experience that where there is an opportunity to commit fraud, people will always avail of it. The Department left itself wide open. As I understand it, a childcare provider could register 20, 40, 50 or 100 children and could claim payment per child, but the children might never have spent a day in the facility. Surely that is just a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: That is putting it mildly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: In reality, the Department supported providers. It handed money to Pobal and Pobal, in turn, handed it to them. The money went to the providers and it did not go to the families. They were not getting good value. The Department did not set out what it proposed to do. One is not getting good value for money if the child is not turning up.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Which it was not.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Which there was.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: It is fraud. Perhaps I misunderstood what was said earlier, but the basis for the payment was enrolment and registration. Then it changed some years ago to base it on attendance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: With the retrospective governance that we are very fond of in here - and I mean in general and not just in the context of the Department of Children and Youth Affairs - my interpretation of what Dr. Lynch has said is that the rules then allowed for the fraud or the over-claims. The rules, as set out by Dr. Lynch's Department and transferred to Pobal, allowed for this to happen. The...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Kate O'Connell: There was payment for 20 hours and the child was only coming in for ten hours.

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