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Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Yes.

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Other regulatory issues covering, for example, the environment, in which a State company is involved, would be captured by this. This is the normal governance relationship between a Minister or a Department and a company whose shareholding resides with the Minister, to do the proper business of governing the company. Lobbying outside that sphere would be captured by this Bill.

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: We had this discussion on Committee Stage. I will put it in some context. When framing the Bill, we looked at best international practice. A number of options were available to actually define what lobbying is. Different jurisdictions have tried different definitions. Most of us would ask "What is lobbying?" In plain English, it is attempting to influence decision-making. That is the...

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Section 5, “Meaning of carrying on lobbying activities”, gives a very broad definition. A person is lobbying if that person “makes, or manages or directs the making of, any relevant communications” in the circumstances set out. “Relevant communications” are defined in subsection (3): “In subsection (1)“relevant communications”...

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: It sounds like a promotion.

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: I would not mind giving a quick response.

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: The Deputy is being more than a tad mischievous in how he has presented this. He knows full well that I intend to include public servants in the legislation. I explained in some detail on Committee Stage that I would do this in a different format. I am prescriptive as regards Ministers, Deputies and members of local authorities because they are a discrete, finite group. In terms of...

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: I have responded to the points made. In essence, the Deputy wants me to put into the primary statute the list of public officials. It is better to allow enabling legislation with regard to public officials. I have indicated what I will do at the start, but this is by no means intended to be the end of it. From the start Secretaries General, assistant secretaries general and chief...

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: I have nothing more really to add, other than to state it is not as simple as the Deputy is putting forward because there are analogous grades in the Civil Service. There are directors and technical grades which should be included but will not be captured by simply describing assistant secretaries. It is better, I am advised formally because I have checked since we spoke this morning, to do...

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: For example, the chairman of the Revenue Commissioners or the chairman of the Office of Public Works are an equivalent grade but would not be captured by "Secretary General".

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Yes.

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: What they are is set out under the Constitution.

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: This covers the same territory as we have just covered. In essence, the Deputies opposite want to achieve the same objectives that I do, but they have a different way of doing it. They want to set it out in primary legislation. I say that is not the best way of doing it, because there are analogous grades that could not be captured and it would give the wrong signal. It is better to state...

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Again, we discussed this on Committee Stage, and I have many difficulties with it. First, it seeks to fundamentally alter the architecture of the Bill. The Bill is predicated on a very simple structure, which is to regulate through registration and reporting requirements the responsibility of people who lobby. So the onus is on the lobbyist - the person who is carrying out the lobbying....

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: We have not excluded them. We are going to put them in.

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: We are going to do it. The effect, legally, is the same.

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: We have not excluded them.

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: The Deputy has now gone into his normal mischievous phase. We are doing constructive work. We are not excluding senior public servants. I want to include them in a different way, something which I told the Deputy and which he accepted. One minute he says he accepts my bona fides that this will happen by way of statutory instrument because it is a more effective way of doing it, but the...

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Yes.

Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (15 Jan 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Yes.

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