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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: No, that is fine.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: I do not want to run down the clock on this, so I will not go any further but my point is if this has been allocated towards it and we are saying not one penny more, but yet the conciliator, who is independent, recognised as such and has a long history in these projects, is giving a big award like that. That means we are saying not a penny more but we cannot stand over it because if the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: I understand.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: I understand the process but my point still stands. It is really not one for Mr. Tierney; it is really more a political point. To stand over this not one penny more to BAM statement is impossible because that process has to be complete.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: I have some really-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: How much is that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: That leads us down an alleyway where my question cannot be answered. I want to ask the chair of the board, Ms Ross, a few questions. First, is she satisfied with the executive team?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: Have they the skills appropriate to seeing out this project? Is she always happy with all of them?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: Did any of them require any further skills or educational training? As part of this process, did the board sign off on anything for members of the executive team in that way? If so, how much did that cost?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: Is there anything this committee needs to be made aware of in that situation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: No senior executives have been on courses that cost a lot to the project.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: How much did they cost?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: Ms Ross is happy with signing off on that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: Okay. At any point during the project, did any of the contractors, of which there are multiple and not just BAM, for any part or parcel of the project not register with the regulatory agency for any part of the work on the project that Ms Ross is aware of?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: Ms Ross cannot confirm that that did not happen.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: I really just want to know if anyone is working on the site who has not been registered for any period. It is as simple as that. You would be checking those all the time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: It is, in fairness, but some do not report to BAM. Some are sideways, as I understand it. I have rigorously gone through the whole process by which disputes happen because I am on the Committee of Public Accounts. I have gone through the issues of the employer representative, the board process, the meeting between the board and BAM, and then it comes down to the standing conciliator....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: I have raised this in the Dáil previously, so Ms Ross knows.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: Discussion (9 Oct 2024)

Alan Kelly: That is incredible, for one simple reason. A couple of weeks ago, the chief executive of the board said directly to me, after I asked him a number of times, that he did have confidence. What has happened in the last couple of weeks to change that? Mr. Gunning had confidence, because he nodded at me, but Ms Ross does not have confidence.

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