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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Jackie Cahill: I remind all witnesses, members and those in the Gallery to turn off their mobile phones. The purpose of today's meeting is the continued examination of peat shortages in the horticulture sector. The committee will hear from the Minister of State, Senator Pippa Hackett, and officials from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. All those present in the committee room are asked...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Pippa Hackett: I thank the Chair and the committee members for the invitation. I am pleased to be here to speak to the committee on this important but difficult matter of horticultural peat. I am joined by my all-woman team of officials that the Chair introduced. I do not know how often this happens here. I thank them for being here. As Minister with responsibility for horticulture, I want, at the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: ...about is a Bord na Móna site subject to planning permission. None of them has it in Bord na Móna at the moment. This will delay the rehabilitation of a site where there is suitably qualified peat. The third one is the Rochfortbridge site I am familiar with where Cement Roadstone Holdings, CRH, dig out sand underneath. The peat is all bulldozed and thrown off first. On a drag...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: ...of it. Is there going to be collaboration on this? This report is going on and on and now it looks like we need three more bits of reports after this report. Where is the end game that we get peat to the horticulture sector instead of importing it from other countries by boat? We need to get it up and running and put the research into it for 2030 and 2035. I think everyone is in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Martin Browne: ...further down the line are we from the last time the Minister of State was at this committee? One of the things the Minister of State referred to the last time was this free for all extraction of peat. That kind of language is completely misrepresenting what this committee has agreed on. The sector is less than 1% of the amount of what is needed. This throwing out this free for all...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Pippa Hackett: ...has been active where it can be in this area. In respect of our responsibility for research, we have been highly active in putting funds towards that. The question about the tiny amount of peat that is required comes up often and I accept it is a small amount. However, no matter how small an amount it is, it must be extracted through the regulatory process that is in place. That still...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Victor Boyhan: ...to the table. I am somewhat shocked by the content, so much so that I printed some other material. It is literally a cut-and-paste job. Many of the sentences in this briefing note connected with peat and other documents are dropped into the Minister of State's speech. I was reading it this morning and realised I had read it before somewhere. Whole sections are dropped back in here...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

...It is carrying out that research, which is progressing well. It has moved from shelf to house trials. It is a business competing against competitors. They are making good progress. Any work on peat alternatives requires significant management. They are trialling different templates for that management. Progress is being made, but the reality is that members of that PO submitted their...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

...principals to provide us with information on the trials. I am happy to follow up and seek to arrange for the committee to see the trials in action. The industry has committed to transitioning to peat-free alternatives. They are fully committed. This is the transitionary period. It is in their interest to ensure that any of these trials work and are sustainable and that it is not just...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Ms Deirdre Fay: I thank the Senator. The Beyond Peat project started on 1 February this year. It is at the early, discovery stage of the research. As the Minister of State said, the project is co-ordinated by the Teagasc horticultural development department. The Department is in close contact with Teagasc about the project. A stakeholder engagement meeting is taking place tomorrow,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Pippa Hackett: ...October, it was a very positive meeting. It did not get bogged down in many of the negatives. The sector wants to have a positive outlook and to embrace any opportunity that is there. While the peat issue is very much in the here and now for so many in the sector, we are making our way through this and are trying to implement recommendations. Let us work through the recommendations...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Michael Ring: ...talking about alternatives but it is trying to put as many of these people out of business as possible. I have to say that I am aggravated by this. People talk about alternatives. We are bringing in peat from other parts of Europe. It is like the sky. The Green Party talks about the environment. The sky covers Russia, China and every other big nation in the world. We are trying to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Michael Ring: If we do not let them take up the peat, we will close them down.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Pippa Hackett: We need to be clear. There is no ban on peat extraction and nothing is being stopped. Nothing has changed in relation to that. People must be compliant as they always must be. The extractors have to become compliant. That has always been the case. Nothing has changed in relation to the regulations or laws. That is still the case. It is still possible to extract peat but it must be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Pippa Hackett: ...asking, that is, that they engage with the process. We want to help them engage with the process. The Government wants to help people to engage with the process. The Government cannot extract peat itself, so we need people to do that. Those in the sector will watch this. They are aware of the situation. I met many of the growers at the end of last month and we had a very positive...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Jackie Cahill: I do not know how the Minister of State can say there is not a cliff edge because we do not know. The report we got this morning at 11 a.m. could not quantify what peat is there. I do not know how we can say there is not a cliff edge there because the industry indicated there is and the report said they did not know. I do not know how the Minister of State can estimate what peat stocks are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Regina Doherty: ...going around in circles for the past number of years and we have absolutely no productive solutions to filling - what the Minister of State has just called - the interim period before we get beyond peat. That is the problem and the reason we are sitting here talking so frustratingly. We are going around in circles and I think that is actually the plan of the Department of Housing, Local...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Pippa Hackett: ...categorisation because we have moved on. It is unfair to say we have ignored recommendations. The principal remit of the very first Prasad working group was to examine alternatives to the use of peat in the horticultural sector. This working group broadened the discussions beyond that and went outside the scope of what it was established to do which is what we are talking about again...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Regina Doherty: ...the law might have challenges but it certainly would be an action to show the industry we are trying to do something to alleviate the problems it has. The Minister of State referred to "beyond peat", the "path to the future", and to alternatives and also to the fact that I said it was not fair to say that the recommendations of the Prasad report were not implemented. She did not do Nos.1...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticulture Industry: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Nov 2022)

Pippa Hackett: Just to say there is a legal process in place. Peat extraction has not been banned. There is no need to change the legislation if people-----