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- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Brian Stanley: ...xe1;intecare healthy communities parenting programmes, and the use of special emergency arrangements as areas of interest. We are joined by the following officials from Tusla: Ms Kate Duggan, CEO, Mr. Pat Smyth, national director of finance and corporate services, Ms Clare Murphy, interim national director of services and integration, and Ms Rosarii Mannion, national director of people...
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Ms Kate Duggan: I thank the Chair and the committee for the invitation to appear before it today. I am joined here today by my colleagues Mr. Pat Smyth, national director of finance and corporate services, Ms Clare Murphy, national director of services and integration, interim, and Rosarii Mannion, national director of people and change. It has been 18 months since we last had the...
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: It was less than €5 million at that stage four years ago. It emerged as a post-Covid issue for us.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: That was since 2020 as well.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: In the case of that single piece it is about €770,000 a year to put that kind of cover in.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: It cost €15 million for the last two years. That is the pay cost. The additional cost is made up of VAT which will come back to the Government. It is about 10% above normal rates.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: Yes.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: Yes, sorry. It excludes the VAT because obviously that comes back to the State so it is-----
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: It is 10%. If an average employee costs €45,000, then there is probably an extra 10% added to that for an agency staff worker.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: No, it does not.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: It is about 27% extra when we add in the VAT and the-----
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: Yes. That is 27% more to Tusla but not to the State, obviously.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: To clarify one point, the cost of running a private residential unit is comparable with the cost of a Tusla unit in around €7,000 per week.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: Yes but it is important to clarify that point. The Deputy is absolutely right that numbers have increased in terms of the number of placements in private.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: I think that is a reasonable point.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: Could I point out that one of the issues we have is the protection of staff?
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: We experience a lot of abuse of staff.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: That is at the core of this. That is one of the reasons people are reluctant to-----
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: We have tried to come up with other options.
- Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)
Mr. Pat Smyth: Yes.