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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Artificial Intelligence: Artificial Intelligence and Disability: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Nov 2025)

James Geoghegan: I thank the witnesses. There are some familiar faces I dealt with in the Dublin transport plan. Mr. Sherwin mentioned earlier that the language learning models do not even have a corpus of ISL to work from. Will he expand on what he meant by that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Artificial Intelligence: Artificial Intelligence and Disability: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Nov 2025)

James Geoghegan: Mr. Sherwin said there is nobody really working on a strategy in relation to this corpus at the moment. Who would be the appropriate entity or Department to build on a strategy like that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Artificial Intelligence: Artificial Intelligence and Disability: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Nov 2025)

James Geoghegan: Is Ireland an outlier in comparison, let us say, to our fellow European Union member states? Are there other EU member states that would have a corpus of sign language that we can look to in terms of the strategies they have developed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Artificial Intelligence: Artificial Intelligence and Disability: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Nov 2025)

James Geoghegan: I think Mr. Sherwin has already said this, but does it stand to reason that countries that have a corpus of sign language should be the greatest beneficiaries from AI technology if they get it right as to what it can offer deaf people? Is that too simplistic?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Artificial Intelligence: Artificial Intelligence and Disability: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Nov 2025)

James Geoghegan: This committee will compile reports at various stages of the work we are doing. We will also engage with - or we hope to engage with - some of the major technology companies building these LLMs. It seems a pretty obvious thing this committee should at least recommend or explore. Presumably, building a corpus of Irish Sign Language is something the witnesses have been trying to do for a...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: I mentioned in private session that when Tusla was before the committee as recently as 20 days ago, we discussed its care of unaccompanied minors and missing unaccompanied minors. I asked if there had been any bad outcomes in respect of missing unaccompanied minors. As that stage, just 20 days ago, there had not been. There have clearly been two very serious bad outcomes - you could not...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: I thank all the witnesses for attending. Like many of the other speakers, I want to express at the outset my sorrow for the young girl who has been the subject of an alleged sexual assault, and to the Ukrainian who has lost his life. It is important to emphasise that both of these children, one of whom is dead and the other who is alleged to have been sexually assaulted, were in the care of...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: Why is it useful? Why is it better than it is now within the domain of the decision-makers and the accommodators, as it were?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: Did the Department have any concerns about that function being removed from the Department back in the previous Government when it was being moved over?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: My question was did the Department have any concerns at that time when it was being moved out from the Department? Did it raise or flag any concerns at that time?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: Okay. Obviously, the situation in respect of that poor girl who was allegedly sexually assaulted is that she was an unaccompanied minor. Two weeks ago, representatives from Tusla appeared before the committee and we were dealing with the subject of unaccompanied minors in the IPAS system. I put the question to them in respect of unaccompanied minors and missing children, of which there...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: Just on the age verification, the Tusla representatives were quite critical in respect of being left with the responsibility, essentially, to sort of look at the child or person before them and guess basically whether he or she is a minor or not a minor. They were quite critical that the function, which rests with the Department, as best as I understand it, was not being carried out in a...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: So Ms McPhillips does not accept that there is any delay in age verification in respect of unaccompanied minors that are in Tusla's care.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: In light of what has taken place, and I take Ms McPhillips' point, and I apologise if I misspoke, in respect of the ten-year-old girl, if there are adults in Tusla centres who are dealing with unaccompanied minors ranging in age, does Ms McPhillips accept that would be a very serious concern from a safeguarding perspective?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: Mr. O'Sullivan just said that there is a problem in the process. He just acknowledged that. What is the Department doing to rectify that problem, particularly in light of the challenges we have seen over the recent days?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: I understand all that. I am just talking about the Department's obligation on age verification. Mr. O'Sullivan acknowledged that there is a delay - am I right in that? - and that it is not being done in a timely way.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: How long is that process taking right now?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: Does Mr. O'Sullivan have an average time?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: Is this something it is a priority to rectify?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2024
Vote 21 - Prisons
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 40 - Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth - Programme E Expenditure
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 9 - Assessing Cyber Security in the Public Sector
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024
Chapter 9 - Criminal Justice Operational Hubs
Chapter 10 - Management of International Protection Accommodation Contracts
(23 Oct 2025)

James Geoghegan: The pact is going to be brought through pursuant to primary legislation. The pact is coming at it from a policy level. Is the Department fixing this? That is the challenge.

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