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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Níl aon leithscéalta faighte againn. We have received apologies from Deputy Ged Nash. Is mian liom na riachtanais bhunreachtúla seo a leanas a mheabhrú do chomhaltaí agus páirt á glacadh acu i gcruinnithe poiblí. Caithfidh comhaltaí a bheith i láthair go fisiciúil laistigh de theorainneacha shuíomh Theach Laighean. Ní...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: I have four members indicating so far. I will begin with an Teachta Timmins, then na Teachtaí Brennan and O'Callaghan and Senator Murphy.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Absolutely, we are aware of the limitations on both sides. If Mr. O'Connor is uncomfortable, he should just tell us.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: It is the Deputy’s time so whatever suits him.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: First, the invitation from the committee stipulated three members. We also brought Mr. Breen to this committee from the State Claims Agency and I thank the committee for allowing that. The NTMA has six mandates now and a lot of staff. When it comes to NewERA, it gives advice to the Government. It is a policy matter for the Government whether to look at that matter. There is an...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: I understand Senator Murphy and an Teachta Doherty have swapped positions. I call an Teachta Doherty. Then we will have an Teachta Burke and Senators Murphy and O'Reilly to conclude.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Mr. O'Connor can go ahead with what he can say.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: The NTMA can provide it to the secretariat.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: The Senator should be very careful with identifiable groups and-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: That is fair. It was not stated in the invitation to appear today, so the witnesses may not have the information available to them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Yes, AHBs get funding from the agency. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta. I thank him for joining the committee. I will touch on a few things. An awful lot has come up in the past hour and a half, so there are a few things I want to ask about in the interests of obtaining clarity. Mr. Ashmore mentioned that there is still investment in six securities that are based in Israel. Did...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Is Mr. Ashmore able to disclose which securities they are?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: I had understood it to mean that, but then-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: We had an awful lot of discussion about what prohibits and does not prohibit the NTMA investing. It is on the basis of return. There has been a huge amount of debate regarding the occupied territories Bill and whether services will be included within it. If services were to be included in the Bill as it stands, would that preclude the NTMA from investing in those six companies or would...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: The NTMA would have to look at the detail. The legislative mandate was mentioned, and that is what defines the NTMA's approach. How would that need to change in order to that there would - Senator O'Reilly described it well - be an ethical approach. I understand that this is not within the NTMA's remit at present. Would that need to be very clearly laid out and then done at Oireachtas...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Is that in terms of return?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Those six are on the list as things stand, however.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Is there a bit of wriggle room then?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: I get that. I take it that there is a legislative basis on which the NTMA invests, even if I have a different view on it and would like us to change that legislative mandate. Mr. Ashmore is saying that it uses third-party support or information to try to deal with the companies involved. For me, it is either black and white or it is not. Will Mr. Ashmore explain how that-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Risk.

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