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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: I am only signalling because I know the Deputy will make a speech about it. It is an input to policy.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: There is a fundamental misunderstanding on the Deputy's side about what we are actually doing. This is not a train at the station to which we can keep adding carriages, that is, loading all economic and social policy onto it. There are several other opportunities to do that. This Bill is concerned with the corrections required by deviations from fiscal objectives. The methodology of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: He never existed.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: Does the Deputy mean the guy from Athenry?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: The Deputy's comments are interesting but they are well outside the scope and scheme of the legislation and outside the treaty. His claims about social and economic assessments are subjective and I do not blame him for this. My reading of the Sinn Féin economic paper suggests to me that it risks putting another 100,000 people out of work rather than creating jobs but Deputy Doherty...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: We have some material here and I will supply the Deputy with a copy because a tabular statement accompanies it. The text says that the IMF also calculated the structural balance for Ireland but was allowed to vary its methodology to take account of country-specific circumstances. The text states that its estimates show that by 2015, the actual deficit of 2.8% is still larger than the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: We will provide the Deputy with that information.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: I think we have it to 2015 and possibly slightly beyond it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: The policy issues raised in these amendments are of a much wider scope than the substance of the Bill. The Deputy has identified some of the issues that any Government would have to consider in preparing a correction plan or any budgetary plan. However, it should be noted that we are talking about a plan and not the actual detailed legislative budgetary proposals that will have to be...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: Exceptional circumstances are provided for under article 3 of the treaty in respect of the budgetary rule. As the debt rule is not similarly provided for, we are reflecting the treaty position in the legislation. The debt rule is based on a three year average, which means it is not as absolute and there is thus less need to include the exceptional rule. I am not sure of the legal position...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: The democratic sequence is that the people changed the Constitution by way of referendum to enable the treaty to be passed. As we legislate we must reflect the terms of the treaty. While exceptional circumstances are provided for in one article, they are not mentioned in the other. If we were to include exceptional circumstances in the legislation we would be going beyond the treaty. I am...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: Our commitment is to be at less than 3% by 2015. The fiscal council examined this issue recently and suggested that, based on the current stability programme update and a number of technical economic assumptions, including tight expenditure control, Ireland may reach its medium-term budgetary objective as early as 2019. However, this forecast must be treated with caution because the council...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: It is part of the dialogue.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: Apart from what I have put on the record already, no.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: As I noted earlier, it is difficult to forecast so far ahead.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: We will be the prime movers and, as in all relationships with Europe, it will be a matter of dialogue. The final arbiter will be ECOFIN, as always, but usually matters are decided at subsidiary level. It is only in the event of disagreement that matters are decided by ECOFIN.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: Deputy Pearse Doherty is trying to justify what many thought were fairly ludicrous positions he took during the referendum campaign. Once the people have decided, I see no point in having a replay. There is no possibility of a replay. It is over and now we are legislating.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: The Deputy will be aware since the referendum campaign that there is a harmonised European methodology which will examine and estimate the structural deficits or surpluses for all countries in the eurozone, and we will comply with that.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: One could do so but one would have to go back to the people if one wants to change the Constitution. Then there is no problem.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Fiscal Responsibility Bill 2012: Committee Stage (18 Oct 2012)

Michael Noonan: Sufficient methodology has been developed to identify and quantify the problem. Stripping it out would require political will, and that is another day's work.

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