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Sustainability of Stability of Services Provided by Section 39 and Section 56 Organisations on behalf of the HSE and Tusla: Statements (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: That is shocking.

Sustainability of Stability of Services Provided by Section 39 and Section 56 Organisations on behalf of the HSE and Tusla: Statements (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Is this about scoring points or supporting people?

Sustainability of Stability of Services Provided by Section 39 and Section 56 Organisations on behalf of the HSE and Tusla: Statements (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Is this about scoring points or supporting people?

Sustainability of Stability of Services Provided by Section 39 and Section 56 Organisations on behalf of the HSE and Tusla: Statements (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: He should tell the truth.

Sustainability of Stability of Services Provided by Section 39 and Section 56 Organisations on behalf of the HSE and Tusla: Statements (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I thank the Minister and Minister of State for being here today. I will preface this by saying I would not normally speak on this kind of industrial relations issue. I believe that industrial relations matters are best dealt with in a negotiation room. They are often best dealt with in advance of strike action, although I fully accept that the right to strike and use of strike action is an...

Financial Resolutions 2023 - Financial Resolution No. 4: General (Resumed) (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: That must explain why the Deputy went into my time, but anyway. The budget was a really important step in the journey. If you think the last time a Fianna Fáil Finance Minister made a budget speech, it was the late Brian Lenihan, and he was in many of our minds when Deputy Michael McGrath stood to propose the finance element of the budget. One of the main reasons was that, as the...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I thank the witnesses for being here. Many people might be asking if we are going over old ground and if we do not know this already. I have said previously that the Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport and Media has a separate remit and function to us. We have a specific remit from the Dáil to draft a report, document what happened and make recommendations on procedures....

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Solely responsible?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Given that we have discovered that the raising of the credit note created the cost-neutral element of it, does Mr. Fives accept that a single person signing off on a credit note is not a robust procedure?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Has RTÉ made any changes to those procedures?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: How many people sign off on it and how is that done?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: That was my next question.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Let me get to that. The first issue is the raising of the credit note. The second question is the issue of RTÉ providing indemnity, and I imagine that providing an indemnity always comes with a cost. Who signs off on an indemnity within RTÉ? Was there a procedure for doing that at the time?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: The business division is, therefore, empowered to provide an indemnity on behalf of RTÉ.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Does Ms Mullooly believe that is a robust enough procedure, given that in this case the business division provided the indemnity and other people should have known about what happened?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Surely the failure here was that the broader management team was not aware of all of the pieces? That is RTÉ's argument. When RTÉ provides an indemnity, at the moment that could be provided by the business division and it may be escalated. Are there any procedures for this? An indemnity of €1 million or €2 million could be provided on that basis.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Does Ms Mullooly accept that as part of procedures and so on, provision of an indemnity was the key reason the additional two payments had to be made, which is RTÉ's case? If that is-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: It is also provision because if it is not given then you do not need to know about it.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation and Expenditure of Public Moneys by RTÉ (Resumed): Discussion (12 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: My question is as follows: have there been any changes in procedures for the provision of indemnities? I am not hearing that there have been.

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