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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: I just want to clarify that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: A mobile phone is interfering with recording.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: What is the practice in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: At what level are the minutes taken? I know people need to be at meetings every day, but at what level do meetings require minutes to be taken? Does it have to be a formal meeting? When one goes in to a room, does one meeting have minutes taken and a different meeting does not? Mr. Nugent might give his views on what tends to be minuted and what is not as he is a chief administrative officer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Most meetings between senior colleagues.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: You are in that office now. Check your predecessor's files, which should be still in your office. You might come back us to help clarify these meetings, in particular if, for any meeting that has been referred to here today, there is a minute in the records. I know you were not there at the time but you are there now

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is an official request from the committee. For any meetings referred to here today in the evidence, I ask that you check if there is a record. You know the dates we are talking about. If there is such a record, it should be forwarded to the committee as quickly as possible.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: I will go through one or two issues with Mr. Kelly and Mr. Culhane. We have referred several times to Mr. Culhane's letter to Mr. Kelly dated 20 February concerning the internal audit report. I draw attention to something else Mr. Culhane said a moment ago. The letter included various complaints to Mr. Kelly, one of which related to offshore bank accounts, which we have clarified do not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Let us look at the context. Did Mr. Kelly make some comparison?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Kelly does not recall making the comment but he is not sure.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: What was the basis for Mr. Culhane putting this statement in writing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Pardon me.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: In Dublin.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Culhane to outline his understanding of that comment drawing a comparison with Console, even though it is based on second-hand information.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: We dealt with that matter and witnesses appeared before the committee at the time. Could Mr. Kelly have made such a comparison?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am not finished. This letter will end up being more significant when we come to do our review of proceedings. As I stated, the letter was sent to Mr. Kelly on 20 February. Did he rebut it in writing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Kelly has left those comments on the record for the last three months.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Culhane seems reasonably satisfied that the remark was made and Mr. Kelly is not sure it was made. The reason this remark is serious-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is hearsay but I am teasing out the issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Seán Fleming: I will not be accused of not being fair. I will tease out matters equally with everybody. Some people may not like my line of questioning but everybody's evidence will be----

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