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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: That is a reverse kind of secondment

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: The open-ended secondment sounds like it was something special for Dr. Holohan but this was not a special arrangement. It applies to Secretaries General whose tenure concludes before their retirement age. It keeps them at their Secretary General salary in the public service or Civil Service or an international institution. It seems, therefore, to be quite a parallel model.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: I will move now to the CMO. It is nice to meet Dr. Holohan face to face. Our meetings up to now have been virtual. Dr. Holohan said he had the support of the Secretaries General of the Department of the Taoiseach and Health and of the Minister. Was it a surprise then when it was suggested that the process be paused? What was Dr. Holohan's feeling around that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Is it retrievable?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Could Dr. Holohan be persuaded to think again?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: It is not a "No".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Okay. That is important. If the Secretary General was to start again and because there is an inquiry into the learnings, what has he learned?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: There was one aspect to the proposal that seemed to imply that the CMO, had it gone through, could also avail of services of work in the private sector. That would have differed from the arrangement for Secretaries General. That may be a question that Dr. Holohan can come back on. In terms of learnings, it has been said that any reasonable person looking at this objectively would have...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: And the Secretary General.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Were there casual or informal conversations saying "we are looking at this, we have not got it ready yet and we will let people know when we have"?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: I thank both of the witnesses.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: I have just a couple of supplementary questions. On one reading, the letter to Trinity was a proposal and not an agreement. The term “proposal” is loose enough. That is the benign interpretation. However, there is the signature signing up to it. Does Mr. Watt see it in the terms that there is a difference between a proposal and an agreement? What was the signature about?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: If he were to be seconded, this is what it would look like.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Okay. There are a couple of things. I am aware the Secretary General of the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth completed their term of office on 18 January. The Secretary General of the Department of Education completed their term of office clearly before their retirement date. The Secretary General is chief executive officer. How long is that term of office?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Can it be extended?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: CEO of a Department is a pretty big responsibility. I absolutely understand, and perhaps it should be communicated a little bit better, that the kind of experience, knowledge, information and expertise a Secretary General would accumulate and garner over time in running a Department, depending on the Department, but many Departments have budgets of billions, deserves to be shared and is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: It is the same model, the only difference being that Mr. Watt was going to apply this to deputy Secretary General level. Dr. Holohan does not have to answer this, but is he near 40 years as a public servant?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Proposed Appointment of Chief Medical Officer to a Role at a Higher Education Institution: Discussion (4 May 2022)

John Lahart: Is he far off 40 years?

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