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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: What if NAMA completes its task much sooner? It is on target. It was set up with a ten-year term. The Minister encouraged the quick big sales to the vulture funds. We have had special reports on that and a commission is looking at Project Eagle, which was the first big sale. That was all in an effort to get NAMA to wrap up a little sooner. What if it does? It sounds as if the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am looking at the financial accounts for the full year. Half a dozen semi-State companies have made dividend payments to the State each year. They cannot be guaranteed to be profitable two or three years hence. It is exceptionally conservative that NAMA cannot even pay an interim dividend or an interim payment.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: Okay. Perhaps Ms Nolan will send the committee a note on how she thinks that is shaping up. There might be a quick answer to my next question. When some of the banks got into trouble, the taxpayer had to bail them out. Essentially, what happened was that the bank debt, which was a problem debt, was handed over to NAMA, another State organisation, which, through its work, effectively...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: What would happen if one of the regulated vulture funds went bust? Would the taxpayer have to bail it out?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: Explain that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: I understand that. There are mixed views on it, but I take Ms Nolan's point.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: I take Ms Nolan's point. Others might not, but I do. That is my personal view. AIB and Bank of Ireland are now profitable and they are starting to pay dividends. What is the position with corporation tax from the banks we bailed out? Now that they are profitable and talking about profits of €1 billion, when will we see corporation tax from those banks?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: Who can give us a note on the entire deferred losses of the financial institutions? Ms Nolan said it is in their public accounts. I am asking her to assist us now, because we do not have the research.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: Perhaps Ms Nolan will provide a summary of, and a total for, deferred losses for the financial sector that are in the system and we will look at that compared to their annual profits.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: We heard reports that AIB said in its prospectus that it will not be paying tax for 30 years.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: Ms Nolan is not projecting any corporation tax within the next decade from AIB or Bank of Ireland, the main banks we bailed out.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: Refresh the public on that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: So it does not expect to-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: That would be 25 years. We get the message, but Ms Nolan might send us a detailed note. The next item is the AIB dividend of €200 million that will be paid this year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: Is that going against capital or can it go into revenue? It is not a capital receipt or a once-off payment. It is an annual dividend, not a windfall receipt.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: That can go into current expenditure.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: Exactly. Like the other semi-States that I mentioned. I have one or two more questions. Looking at page 11 of the finance accounts, will the witnesses tell me about what is not here in the Central Fund? In 2015, Ireland paid €1.952 billion to the EU. Under that there are receipts from the EU of €66 million, a fraction of that. We had it here with the Department of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: And also the projections for the next few years. Why in the Central Fund do we have the payments out but not the income in? The Central Fund should capture the total income into the State. Why is that receipt from Europe, which is about €1.2 billion or €1.3 billion, not there? Perhaps the Comptroller and Auditor General might tell us. I know it is a separate fund but why is...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: I ask that a note be sent to us because Europe sends about €1.2 billion to Ireland each year. We pay it around €1.9 billion, which is much more, but the receipt of that €1.9 billion does not go through the agriculture Vote.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes, I am talking about the CAP. None of that comes through the Oireachtas. We never see it coming through the agriculture Vote, the Estimates or the Committee of Public Accounts. The Central Fund is meant to capture everything that is not in the Vote of expenditure and it does not come through there either. Please send us a note. We do not have the total picture. The obvious next...

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