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Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: What is the €45 million I mentioned? In addition to the €100 million that the court indicated should not have been paid, is there another €45 million provided for also? Who will explain the two figures?

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Why is that?

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Could the reverse charge of VAT be explained for the ordinary viewer in non-technical language?

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Will the Comptroller and Auditor General speak about the VAT?

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: When we look at the public private partnership motorway projects listed here, including all the liabilities outstanding in the various big schemes, the costs which are quoted to the committee for a motorway project does not include the VAT which TII pays directly.

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: I know that.

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: And when TII tells the committee that a scheme costs €248 million, that includes the VAT that it paid.

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: I understand. Will the Comptroller and Auditor General advise the committee on this VAT issue? It would have crossed his desk as part of the audit. He is saying that this figure of €100 million is a non-adjusting event. Is that the big figure? This €100 million came in after the year end, but it relates to last year. Why would that be? It is a very large figure to say...

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is why I ask. How soon does TII expect to have its figures completed? Most of the information regarding VAT inputs and so on has to be in Mr. Wylde's organisation. I am sorry, this may be a bit boring but it exercises the public mind when people hear we have been paying VAT and we should not have been. Mr. Wylde will understand that this resonates with the public. Now, nine months...

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is complicated but the TII can send the committee a note to explain. I know that every project is different, but can the witnesses give the committee a round figure for the average cost of a kilometre of motorway? There might be X number of bridges and interchanges, but can the witnesses give an idea of the cost involved?

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Does that vary significantly depending on whether it is a public private partnership scheme?

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: In that case, how does one benchmark if a public private partnership is value for money or one should go that route if all these extra costs are worked into a scheme which is done directly, but not for public private partnership scheme? There must be a formula to exclude this.

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Are there many projects where the non-construction costs would exceed the construction costs?

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Maybe in part of the M50 it might be more.

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Was the expensive land acquisition of such projects the only area where non-construction costs exceeded construction costs?

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: On public private partnerships, the TII has had its reviews. It is an issue to which we will return as it is in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. It is very well for TII to say it had value for money, but the committee cannot endorse that view if we do not have the information from which it derived that conclusion. That is only an assertion from my perspective as Chairman of...

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Thirty years.

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: From what Mr. Nolan is saying, the national Parliament will not get access to this information until 2050, that is, we will not have sight of the information on matters which Mr. Nolan says are commercially sensitive until the contract expires in 30 years time. Mr. Nolan must accept from the point of view of the Committee of Public Accounts that we do not accept that this is how it should...

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is correct that he has signed the accounts, but the question is on the value for money. Will the Comptroller and Auditor General comment on this?

Public Accounts Committee: Transport Infrastructure Ireland: Financial Statements 2016 (12 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: This is an issue. There is a chapter in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report specifically on this matter. It does not relate to roads public private partnerships alone, but also other public private partnerships such as schools. We will return to this topic. On service stations -----

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