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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Business of Joint Committee (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: Before turning to the main item on today's agenda, I note the minutes of the committee meetings of 22 and 23 November and 7 December 2022 have been circulated to the members for consideration. Are they agreed? Agreed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: The purpose of today's meeting is for the joint committee to consider issues with regard to the recruitment, retention and manpower planning for general practitioners. To enable the committee to consider this matter, I am pleased to welcome Dr. John Farrell, chair; Mr. Fintan Foy, chief executive officer and Dr. Diarmuid Quinlan, medical director, Irish College of General Practitioners. All...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: We will now move on to Deputy Durkan. Is he on the campus in Leinster House?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: Dr. Farrell can take it that the committee will support that reasonable call for the establishment of the review.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: While we have not had a formal meeting, it seems the consensus at today's meeting is that we will agree to that. We will move to Senator Hoey. Can she confirm that she is within the precincts of Leinster House?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: I think a number of Members concentrated on the fact that we have 2,807 GPs and we need 6,000 by 2028, in six years' time. From what we have heard this morning, unless a plan is put in place, we will hardly reach that and it is clear, even with the best will in the world, that it would be very difficult to reach that plan. There were a number of questions about the capacity of the current...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: You are talking about 9% of those who go on to be GPs, so that is 350 you are saying that-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: Will we reach the figure we are looking for if we have that maximum number? If there is a magic wand such that the Minister turns around tomorrow and asks for the colleges to be filled to capacity, can the ICGP do that? Does it have the personnel? Does it have the space to put those people if it had those interns who were available to go into-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: It is doable. Is that what you are saying?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: For the people going into medicine and the graduates, it is a long time to go through a course without an income. Is that an area we should be looking at in the context of supports? The cohort going into medicine in Ireland in the 21st century either has to have money or has to know someone who has money to get into medicine. Is that not the case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: The question I am asking is what additional supports we need to give those graduates going through the system. We have had people talk about student nurses. Trying to get accommodation if going to college is a huge barrier to people. I am asking what happens if they do not have money. Dr. Farrell says they can borrow it. That is not always easy either. The cohort that can actually go...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: I will let me colleagues in in a moment. It is primarily poor people who are being impacted, although I am not saying that people from other backgrounds cannot get doctors. We are training people at considerable cost, but they are going to more developed and wealthier countries while we are taking doctors from poorer and less developed countries. There is something wrong with this. We...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: Following on from the question of the shared contract, would that work to try to encourage some of the GPs who are facing retirement? Would it be helpful?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: Again, we need supports around that. That is why I thought of the shared contract but maybe they would be reluctant to go down that route. There are hours and you are isolated in a rural area. For a GP it is very difficult.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: I will bring the meeting to a close. The committee will follow up on that. We give that commitment. The engagement was very useful. It was illuminating on some of the issues raised. It gives the committee a lot of food for thought as we move forward. We will certainly pursue this as a committee; the representatives have our commitment on that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: From today, we can write to find out where it is at. We may engage with the ICGP afterwards about the link person, who will oversee this, in the Department.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: That would be useful. I thank representatives from the Irish College of General Practitioners for assisting the committee on this important matter. We will certainly keep this under review in the context of overall manpower planning in the health services. This concludes our last public meeting of 2022. I wish everyone - staff and members - a happy Christmas. My constituency colleague,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Recruitment, Retention and Manpower Planning Issues: Irish College of General Practitioners (14 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: You are saying that the first point of reference or contact is with the GP. The big challenge, as Members have mentioned, is poverty. Deputy Cathal Crowe talked about poverty and the poverty index in Clare. Realistically, in a lot of cases poor people cannot get a GP, and it has been mentioned that that is the case not just in rural Ireland but also in urban areas. If poor people cannot...

Confidence in Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Motion (13 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: Do not be worrying. We are not going anywhere.

Confidence in Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Motion (13 Dec 2022)

Seán Crowe: There are more Shinners than Fine Gaelers here. That is for sure.

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