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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Paradise Papers: Chairman, Office of the Revenue Commissioners (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: I will stick with interest. With regard to the financial institutions, has each of the 11 institutions which we now know were involved in the tracker mortgage scandal contacted Revenue to make arrangements to pay the mortgage interest relief the customers are due? Have these payments been made or have arrangements been made?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Paradise Papers: Chairman, Office of the Revenue Commissioners (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: I am not asking Mr. Cody to identify any individual or individual institution, but is there a full spirit of co-operation or is Revenue seeing any resistance?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Paradise Papers: Chairman, Office of the Revenue Commissioners (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Paradise Papers: Chairman, Office of the Revenue Commissioners (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: In regard to the calculation of interest, have the Revenue Commissioners concluded the piece of work to calculate the interest that would be due with regard to the €13 billion from Apple? I understand Revenue would be the authority that would have to calculate this based on the Commission's guidelines. Has this work been done and supplied to the Department to ensure the total amount...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Paradise Papers: Chairman, Office of the Revenue Commissioners (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: Does Revenue have any understanding of when it will be finished? Will Mr. Cody give us an indication on the calculation of where he sees this ending up? Obviously there is the €13 billion that has been put out there by the Commission. Others have estimated that the interest that would be applied to it could be between €3 billion and €5 billion on top of this. Some...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Paradise Papers: Chairman, Office of the Revenue Commissioners (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: That is very worrying because we are being taken to court by the European Commission.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Paradise Papers: Chairman, Office of the Revenue Commissioners (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate the point about the figure; I was just chancing my arm to see if the witness would slip it in. I presume that having the money placed in an escrow account cannot happen until the Revenue Commissioners have concluded their calculations of the total amount, that is, coming up with the €13 billion figure and then the interest portion, or is Mr. Cody saying that the process...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Paradise Papers: Chairman, Office of the Revenue Commissioners (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: I do not understand that. Is there an agreed figure? Is there a portion of the calculation agreed at this point?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Paradise Papers: Chairman, Office of the Revenue Commissioners (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: The final figure has not been agreed. I have a final question. It relates to Brexit, which is very topical at present. It is off the subject but we have all seen the leaked document, which I understand is an incomplete desktop study. There were suggestions that the Revenue Commissioners were asked to stop the work they were doing. Are the Revenue Commissioners carrying out a further...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017 (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: Will the Minister of State explain why formal sanction was not provided for the positions in the DPP until the fourth quarter of 2017?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017 (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: Will the Minister of State explain why the formal sanction for those positions was not provided until the fourth quarter of 2017?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017 (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: Who was required to provide the formal sanction for these positions?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017 (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: It was the Department.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017 (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: We are not just looking at expenditure here. There are savings of €771,000, which, I assume, probably relate to two positions. The DPP is under-resourced. Budgetary sanction was given, which this committee dealt with in terms of providing money to employ additional staff. However, formal sanction for those positions within the DPP was not provided by the Department until just a...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017 (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: I would rather have had that information while we were dealing with the Estimates. We need a detailed note about why the committee agreed Estimates for the approval of additional personnel yet formal sanction was not received until just a couple of weeks ago.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017 (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that. On the other items of expenditure, will the Minister of State take me through the fees to counsel, which Deputy Michael McGrath has dealt with? In terms of the €1.377 million shortfall in the fees to counsel subhead, what does the €155,000 in terms of pay mean? It is subhead A1. Is it a transfer from pay? Are the savings that have been made being...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017 (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: Is the underestimated fees to counsel figure a result of the number of complex legal or financial cases?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017 (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: Is it because there has been an increase in the number of murder and rape cases? The financial cases were known about when we dealt with the Estimates.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017 (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: That is in the Central Criminal Court. Assigning extra judges has led to an increased number of sittings. The Minister of State has said two factors led to the overrun or shortfall - whichever way one wants to look at it - of €1.377 million. What proportion of it is a result of the increased activity in the courts, particularly the Central Criminal Court, and what proportion is a...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2017 (29 Nov 2017)

Pearse Doherty: Approximately €700 million to €800 million is a result of the financial trials, which are small and some of them collapsed. The rest is attributable to the changes in the Central Criminal Court. We have changed how we deal with Estimates over the past number of years. The output targets remain the same despite an increase in activity. Even though the reason for this overrun...

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