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Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Through the Chair, please.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Regarding the service provider, please.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: I understand what the Deputy is saying. Many members of this committee and those who monitor it closely understand the details relating to the High Court, separating the Grace case from the service provider and who took the case, but the people watching do not know the details. This is why I am allowing more context. It is not for our benefit. We understand.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is for the people watching. This is not coming out of the Deputy's time.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: We are the Committee of Public Accounts. There are people watching this meeting and trying to-----

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. O'Brien will answer the question.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: For those who watch the committee, it is important to get some background to understand the specifics that we are familiar with but that the public do not know.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: No. He will answer the question. He has given some background for the benefit of viewers who do not know the details. He will give the specific answer to the specific question. That is guaranteed.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is a subtle difference.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Fine. It goes without saying that the transcript of everything said will be sent to the commission for it to look into the matter. Before the next Deputy speaks, I wish to clarify a point. Mr. O'Brien referred to examining the Grace case, in respect of which a settlement of €600,000 was approved by the High Court, but he also referred to other cases. Are more cases coming? How...

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Given that Mr. O'Brien referred to a number of other claims this morning and he does not-----

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Does Ms Colley, who is the CHO area 5 manager, know whether there are other cases separate from the Grace case? Mr. O'Brien has indicated that he does not know what is with the State Claims Agency, but Ms Colley seems to be the manager of CHO area 5 and should know whether there are cases from her area now with the State Claims Agency in respect of the service providers to the people...

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: If Ms Colley does not have the information in front of her, is she aware of other cases? A case cannot have got to the level of the State Claims Agency without the HSE sending it. The State Claims Agency is the HSE's agent dealing with the case. As the principal, the HSE should know what it has asked the State Claims Agency to deal with on its behalf.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. O'Brien wants to be exact.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: We do not want the details of specific individuals. That goes without saying. If Grace was just the precedent and more cases are following with the State Claims Agency, though, the committee needs to know. I just want to put it on the record. We ask that Mr. O'Brien send us that information. I call Deputy Cullinane. We are nearly finished.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: First, the commission is examining that issue specifically. As we know, the Waterford Intellectual Disability Association has made that exact point. Second, we in the committee can pass on information but we cannot come to a conclusion on this point without examining the funding of other organisations, which we will not be doing.

Public Accounts Committee: Deloitte Report on Cost of Care in Grace Case (26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: I agree. The Deputy should bear in mind that our discussions today on this particular point will be included in the transcript of proceedings and will go to the commission. Our deliberations will help it to draw a conclusion on the matter.

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