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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: To be clear, I have not said there is any such evidence, although I accept the Deputy was not suggesting otherwise. This is about what fits within a legal framework in the context of any legal challenges that might be made down the line. I might hand over to Mr. O'Mahony for the other specific questions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: I also want to be clear: the latest legal opinion was submitted recently and we are considering it. The final decision has not been made.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: To return to the Deputy's initial point, we have come quite quickly to pre-legislative scrutiny because there is urgency around this legislation. If we did not properly consider the most recent legal opinion we received, with all the focus it is getting at the moment, he would have a different line of attack at me, I would respectfully suggest, because it is important we look at every...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: Even if that is the case, I have given the Deputy a straight answer on it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: I thank Deputy Carthy for raising those points. A central tenet that the Deputy leaves out of the points he is putting forward is the change in approach from an EU level to antiparasitics - the up-regulation. In European law, the default position is that veterinary medicinal products, VMPs, for food producing animals require veterinary prescription before they can be supplied. However,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: Is the Deputy talking about antibiotics now?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: I will bring in Mr. O'Mahony and maybe Dr. Corkery as well on some of the Deputy's points. Back to my earlier point, the Deputy is not comparing like with like. In terms of antibiotics, there is a five-day length of lifespan for a prescription. Antiparasitics will have a 12-month lifespan. They are very different. The officials here can come in with the specific details in terms of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: Mr. O'Mahony will reply.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: Before Dr. Corkery speaks again, it is easy to sit here and ask about leaving aside the legalities. We cannot do that as a Department. We have to make sure, with anything we bring in, that the legalities are right. I will hand back to Dr. Corkery. I just wanted to make that point.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: I will hand back to Dr. Corkery. I know the Chair wants to come through me on this, which is fine. I want to make the point that we do not have the luxury of saying we can leave aside the legalities.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: This should have been implemented before now but we have to get the process right. That is why-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: We are in the hands of Members of the Oireachtas.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: I ask Mr. Collins to answer that. I do not concur with Deputy Carthy's terminology.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: I was not Chair.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: I will bring in Mr. Corkery on that specific issue.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: I thank the Deputy for those points. We only last week received the latest legal opinion which was mentioned. It is very new and we want to give it the due consideration it deserves because this topic is so important. We will have a decision on that as soon as we can. Should pre-legislative scrutiny be passed allowing the legislative process to start and if the Department were to find...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: We are in the hands of the committee.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: I thank the Deputy for his points. The point about the 12-month duration of the prescription is new here as well. I was not aware that had not been discussed previously. It is back to the main point. The priority is to ensure whatever regulation passed here meets the regulatory requirements it needs to meet. We need to do that in a way that gives farmers the greatest choice and tries to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: Yes. We cannot avail of the derogation because of the status of the HPRA judgment.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2022: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Oct 2022)

Martin Heydon: I will ask Dr. Corkery to comment on that.

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