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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: The transcript of our comments will be communicated or forwarded to the commission with the documentation we have received. It will then be up to the commission if it wishes to take the matter further. No. 1,000, dated 28 December 2017, is from Mr. Neil McDermott of the Higher Education Authority and contains information on expenditure on consultants and legal firms by third level...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: We are agreed on that. We will certainly return to this topic, in particular, as part of our review of the education sector. Deputy Cullinane will send in a note suggesting how we might go about it. I understand Deputy Kelly has requested additional information on the same topic as well. If both Deputies send in their views, we will discuss it again. It is an issue that will certainly...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: Perhaps the Comptroller and Auditor General could explain if this is primarily an issue for third-level institutions or does it affect other sectors. Will he give some of his observations to assist the committee?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform's statement that doing this would be too complex and infeasible is damaging to the public sector. If any business gave that answer, it would not remain in existence for long. We reject the notion that it is too complex.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: We only have one issue to decide. Obviously, we will take this matter up. We will probably revert straight to the Department. We want the list of all of the spin-out companies. When its Accounting Officer is before us, this will likely be a specific item for discussion. It was mentioned that two reports are in train. We want them to be submitted to the committee as quickly as possible....

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: We will agree to that and move on. That was just the first, but main, recommendation that we needed to discuss because it was the only one that was not accepted. We will write back to the Department saying that we reject the notion that "it is not feasible to ascertain the specific attribution of all of the relevant activities and costs". It is not beyond the ability of the public service...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: Then this statement is clearly incorrect. The Comptroller and Auditor General does not check all compliance matters.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: The minute claims that Mr. McCarthy draws our attention to any instance of non-compliance, but he made it clear previously that he-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Comptroller and Auditor General will provide an information note to the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: The statement by the Accounting Officer of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform is inaccurate. We will note that and inform him of it.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: Last week, the Comptroller and Auditor General produced an information note on this topic.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: We are coming to that matter. Some of the other recommendations touch on non-compliance and the Department has responded and outlined what it proposes to do, including a financial penalty. What the Deputy and Mr. McCarthy have been discussing will be discussed shortly. Recommendation No. 35 related to Dundalk Institute of Technology's overseas contract, which has been put out to public...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: -----back onto the State balance sheet because of the nature of their funding. The exact same discussion is taking place in respect of all the approved housing bodies. At the moment they are the panacea for everything because they are off balance sheet. The CSO says, "Hold on, that classification has been re-examined." We therefore want a note from the CSO about these things so we can-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes. The reason for that is that if 50% of their funding comes from the private sector, probably through private funding from outside the State sector, they are in the private business of providing services in the private sector. The big universities in England, for example, would receive much more in private income than in State income. Perhaps ours was a European approach to...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: It is a bit like the Deputy's friends in RTÉ, about whom he talks substantially. It is the exact same in RTÉ.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: All their borrowings would come onto the State balance sheet.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: I think the CSO is more worried about liabilities and borrowing than assets. We do not put the cost of every road in the country on the balance sheet-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: -----to my knowledge, we do put the cost of what we borrowed, that is, a bit of the road, on our balance sheet.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: It does, and that is why this is a timely and important question and why I have homed in on this paragraph. In response to recommendation No. 89, it is stated that a review of the practice in respect of sabbatical leave is to be commenced in the fourth quarter of 2017. We want a copy of the circular referred to in the response to recommendation No. 95. The response to recommendation No. 101...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Jan 2018)

Seán Fleming: The sectoral committee should follow up on that. Is that agreed? Agreed. Perhaps it was sent to that committee anyway. If it was not, we will forward it to the committee. Correspondence No. 1027 is from Professor Richard Thorn providing an update on the Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board investigation. He expects to complete his report by the end of the month. We note...

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