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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Cuirim fáilte roimh na finnéithe chuig an gcoiste. I want to pick up on that point. I had extensive engagement with Mr. Masding on this issue the last time he was before the committee. I could not, for the life of me, understand then how Permanent TSB had structured its split mortgages in such a way, as Mr. Masding stated very clearly to this committee, that under the ECB rules...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, that statement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Does it still stand?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Does that mean split mortgages will always be defined as non-performing?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Is it not the case that while Permanent TSB's split mortgages are defined as non-performing, split mortgages in themselves do not necessarily mean they are non-performing until they return to their original contract?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: There were 4,600 split mortgages in the Project Glas portfolio. My concern is that Permanent TSB - with all of the expertise it has, all of the money it spends on its advisers and legal fees and all of the salaries enjoyed at board level - has obviously considered this issue and decided to plough ahead with the sale of 4,600 split mortgage performing loans. As Mr. Groarke rightly said, we...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: With respect, the clarification came after the last meeting. I told the witnesses at that meeting exactly what the ECB has confirmed. I ask Mr. Groarke to talk to people in the industry, to legal advisers providing advice to banks and to other bankers. I am sure there are conversations at different events. The witnesses will recognise that what happened was that Permanent TSB constructed...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: I would not expect anything less from Mr. Masding. What he explained to me last time was this: Permanent TSB's split mortgages could not be defined as performing unless they returned to the original contract. That is wrong, because now he has confirmation that split mortgages can be defined as performing loans. I put the practice of AIB and Bank of Ireland to him and he said he did not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Masding took the easy option to sell off performing loans which were deemed non-performing, instead of doing the hard work, which we as Irish taxpayers who funded his bank expect him to do, namely to find a way to make them perform. That is what the ECB has now engaged with Permanent TSB to do. At the last meeting, I put this to Mr. Masding. However, he took the easy road. I do not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: This year?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: I may come back to the sale to vulture funds in a minute, but I want to move. To be clear, I do not believe that Mr. Masding obfuscated. He answered the question. He defended the bank, his decision and the board's decision. That is what I mean when I say that I believe that is his form. It is not that he did not answer the question. The expected response from him is what I got, which...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Was Mr. Masding's bank involved in mismanagement?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: I understand the bank had serious issues. We all know that. The Government at the time pumped quite a significant taxpayer resources into the bank. Was the bank involved in serious operational mismanagement in the tracker mortgage scandal?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: I will ask this question again. In Mr. Masding's view, under his definition and not mine, does he believe his bank involved in serious operational mismanagement?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Is that a "Yes" or a "No"?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: It is neither. When was the last time that the Minister for Finance held a meeting with Mr. Masding?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Masding and the Minister also had a meeting in late 2017.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Can I read the minutes from that meeting to Mr. Masding?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: These are minutes from the Department of Finance. They are private and confidential. I am not sure if Mr. Masding has a copy of them. They state:When asked about causation, Jeremy Masding commented that he had no evidence of collusion or willful complicity, and noted that no personal sanctions had arisen from the Springboard enforcement. He stated that there was strong evidence of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB (14 Jun 2018)

Pearse Doherty: The comments are not about Springboard. The question was about causation in the context of Permanent TSB. The meeting was about Permanent TSB, but Mr. Masding mentioned that there were no personal sanctions arising in the context of Springboard. He went on to state that there was strong evidence of operational mismanagement. Will he accept that there was operational mismanagement in...

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