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Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: Absolutely. I wish academics well and I am sure it is very interesting for them. However, policy makers are key to this issue. Has there been any interaction between the Department of Finance or the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the European Commission in regard to using GNI*? If it is the accepted position of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, and the Secretary...

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: What was the response of the European Commission in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: What does EUROSTAT use?

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: EUROSTAT, yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Moran is aware that the calculations of EUROSTAT have an impact on all sorts of issues, including whether or not spending or borrowing can be on the State balance sheet. That has been a challenge for us in the past. EUROSTAT uses GDP rather than GNI or GNI*.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: I did not support the fiscal compact treaty for that very reason. I agree that that is a problem with standardised rules.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: Have we asked for a break from the fiscal rules or should they be amended?

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: The logic of that position is that we should break from the fiscal rules. If the Commission tells Mr. Moran and the Minister for Finance that it is sorry but GDP is the figure it uses, does Mr. Moran think we should break from the rules?

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Moran stated that the Commission is looking at this favourably. However, if it says that although it is very interesting that Ireland has a bespoke GNI* measurement, it is not allowed and GDP is the sole measurement to be used, what happens then?

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: We will continue using unreliable figures.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: I mean in terms of the implementation of the fiscal rules.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: For reporting and implementation of the rules, we will continue to use unreliable figures.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Moran is dancing on the head of a pin. He has repeatedly stated that GDP is the legally required measurement. At no point will we be allowed to use GNI* to implement the fiscal rules but, rather, GDP alone. In that context, we will continue to use an inaccurate measurement.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: That is my point. I thank Mr. Moran for being honest.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: That is a ridiculous situation.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: We know the matter has been raised. The problem is that the European Commission has not agreed to it.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: My point is that not only does GNI* have no legal standing but the GDP figures, which are unreliable, will continue to be used to implement the fiscal rules, with which Mr. Moran agreed.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: I do not disagree. Incidentally, this is not Mr. Moran's problem and I am not blaming either him or Mr. McCarthy for it.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: There will be more work done outside in the corridor.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

David Cullinane: Was there -----

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