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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes. Sorry, Deputy Burke. I shall give him extra time to make up for my interruptions.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: The witnesses advise the Minister on the PPPs. The Courts Service has done a post project review.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: It is the organisation that advises the Minister, and it has not seen the report.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: When was that issued?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: When was the Courts Service report issued? It is the post-project review.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: We have a list of 30 PPPs all over the place. They relate to the areas of health, the Office of Public Works, justice, education, transport infrastructure, etc., and a Dublin city waste-to-energy proposal. The first post-project review carried out by the Courts Service was published six months ago.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Right. The witness is now telling us it has not been read and studied.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Given that this is the key organisation that advises every body that wants to spend over €20 million and helps them in designing PPPs-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: I understand that. The agency helps to design it and when the project is up and running, it goes back to the Department. If the agency continues to provide advisory services for PPPs and the witnesses know that a post-project review was carried out by the Courts Service, would it not have made sense to read and study it for any lessons learned and to see if the objectives set out at the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: It is extraordinary that Mr. McCarthy has to tell us this because the NDFA representatives cannot.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: The agency is responsible for the finance aspects.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Cahillane told me he had not seen the report.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: As Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, I find this extraordinary. There has been a post-project review of one project but the NDFA has not studied it in detail to see what lessons can be learned. It is advising on new PPPs but there is a report out there and it has not been studied. I am a little disappointed that somebody from the agency did not take an hour to read the report...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Please do but I want a response from the NDFA. There is a serious link missing in this chain of following through in the public interest.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Given that it is the agency's line of business to deal with PPPs and that there is a report out there, would the witnesses not have read it, even if they were not obliged to? Would they not have an interest in the topic? I find it extraordinary that there is a report available and that nobody has chosen to be even interested in reading it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am a bit exasperated at the way in which this meeting is going. Everybody is in favour of publishing them but they have not been published. The Department of Justice and Equality published one and nobody has looked at it. I would have thought the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the NDFA would have gobbled it up and learned lessons from it. Nobody has even taken the time...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: It was a partial review.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: It was a limited review but lessons could still be learned regarding the process for future PPPs.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: We have not any post-project review.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: We have to take the witness's word for that because we have not seen the reports.

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