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Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Would that be Mr. Kelly's assertion?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: That would have been easier to say a few moments ago, but that is it. Moving to the contracts, Mr. Kelly's report states:The contract with Accenture provided to the audit is dated August 2009. This contract was extended without recourse to tendering. This is where Mr. Kelly then says he can give no assurance that public procurement requirements are being complied with, which represents a...

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I will then put the question to Mr. Kidd: why was that the case? Was the contract rolled over a number of times and, if so, how many times?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I did not ask about the complexity. I ask Mr. Kidd to bear with me. I do not want to be rude in any way. I am just trying to elicit information first, and then we will look at whether there are issues in this regard. When was the contract with Accenture first signed?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Who signed off on that each and every year?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Kidd signed off on it?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I ask Mr. Kidd to bear with me. He signed off on it each and every year. Was he aware, when he signed off on it each and every year, that-----

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: -----there were procurement issues?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Would he have had a view, as Mr. Kelly does in his report, that doing so presented a high risk?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Leaving aside the greater-----

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Kidd was aware that there was a high risk-----

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: -----and he still rolled over the contract each and every year.

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: That is Mr. Kidd's rationale.

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: He had to balance risks.

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: If Mr. Kelly is saying he could give no assurance that public procurement requirements were complied with, would it be his view that in 2014, it should have gone out for tender again?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Does Mr. Kelly accept what Mr. Kidd is saying, that there was a greater risk involved?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Why would Mr. Kidd put it out for tender if there was a bigger risk involved?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: What I am asking is, what mistake was made?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Sorry, Mr. Kelly. Mr. Kidd says he had a contract.

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

David Cullinane: This is what I am trying to understand. I will put a question to Mr. Kelly now. He has published an internal audit report.

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