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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 5 - Fiscal Transparency
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: I ask the witnesses to come back to clarify the matter. The last point is directly related and concerns the section on financial reporting, 10a, on page 83. It has come up before. I will ask the witnesses from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform or the Department of Finance or somebody else to give me the definitive document. A couple of paragraphs from the bottom of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: In dealing with the main business we will resume with the Department of Finance. We will start with the opening statement from the Comptroller and Auditor General which will be followed by Mr. Moran's opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. Moran for his opening statement. Members have indicated and will speak in the following sequence: Deputies Catherine Murphy, David Cullinane and Marc MacSharry.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: That is 2018.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Motor tax came in. That is fine. Where did the LPT go?

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Does it come under appropriations-in-aid? We know motor tax goes into the Central Fund.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Where will the LPT be going from this year onwards?

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Are there many major sources of Government money that are not going to the Central Fund? Why is that taken out? Why can it not go into the Central Fund so we can see where it is and then disburse it? Why is it taken out of-----

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Local government-----

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Department of-----

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: It is difficult to know from year to year. It is one way of keeping the public in the dark. The LPT is collected by Revenue and is not lodged in the Central Fund. I know there is a rationale but there is another rationale-----

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: We are not discussing the Social Insurance Fund today. Out of curiosity, where did the money surrendered by the Department go? Did it go back to the Department? Did the Department surrender some funding at the end of 2016?

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: But that is the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: I know but other Departments surrendered moneys to the Department of Finance. Does the Department of Finance surrender moneys to itself?

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: It is only a light-hearted question.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: I take it there have been discussions at Council of Ministers meetings in regard to the Irish use of GNI*. I understand Deputy Cullinane's argument on GDP. Having this bespoke measurement is well and good at official level. However, has it been discussed at Council of Ministers meetings? Have they agreed that GDP is the official position but the GNI* figure will also be considered because...

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: I agree with everything. However, if the issue has not been discussed, this is just a discussion between me and Mr. Moran. I am trying to be helpful. I suspect an agreement could not have been reached at official level to use GNI* to supplement the figures.

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: What is the position at Commission and Council level regarding the use of GNI* to supplement the information on the GNP figure?

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: No other country uses GNI*. Is it acknowledged when we use it in documents? Does EUROSTAT use GNI* in its documents?

Public Accounts Committee: Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2016
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 24 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(19 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: GNI* is not found in any EUROSTAT document and is only found in Irish documents. It is an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

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