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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Some €30 multiplied by seven is €210 and I said approximately €230, so I was very close. That is approximately where we are. That is a kind of verification. The other thing, as Deputy Aylward mentioned, is that on page 33 of the accounts, legal fees are mentioned. I am conscious that people ask about the length of stay. We have all had asylum centres in our...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: It is their right. Page 33 says that €5 million of the €7 million for legal costs, 72%, relates to the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service. For all the people who go to all the solicitors and take all the cases, the taxpayer tends to cover that cost as a result when they-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: What does that mean?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: And the legal costs if they challenge-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Many of the people in the centres arrive here and survive on €21 per week. They take these legal challenges, and according to the witnesses, they would obviously lose in some cases, for which the State does not pay their costs. Where do these people get the money to pay private solicitors?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Do they?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: To conclude on this, the witnesses can send us a detailed information note regarding the locations and number. They probably supply it through parliamentary questions all the time. They can include the number of locations and how many are in each, to complete our file, because we just talk globally. On a different topic for the Department of Justice and Equality, people all over rural...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is it the Garda Vote? It is not the Department's Vote at all. I will reserve that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: I will hold it over until the next meeting. The next thing I want to ask the witnesses about is the various agencies under the Department. We got a briefing note and there is a list of dozens of agencies under the remit of the Department. Has the Department a service level agreement with every one of these agencies?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am not asking any of these but am looking at-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Whether it is the Mental Health (Criminal Law) Review Board, the Parole Board, the Prison Service, Legal Aid Board, the Probation Service or whatever, there is the equivalent of a service level agreement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: I assume, because the Department is giving them substantial taxpayers' money, that they are required to produce their annual financial statements within a period of three months at the year end.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Does Ms McPhillips mean to have them published?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: Many public bodies have a requirement to submit their accounts for audit within a three-month period. That is not about laying them before the Oireachtas.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: That is the Department. I am talking about these agencies.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: The witnesses can see where I am going with this.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: What I want next week is for the Department to verify that all the agencies under its remit have submitted their accounts within three months. If the accounts are for the end of year in December, which they probably all are, the Office of the Auditor and Comptroller General should have all their accounts. The Committee of Public Accounts has written directly to each of the agencies audited...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: We are not talking about that at all-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: -----just about the submission for audit. We know the audit process will take months, but in our job as the Committee of Public Accounts, the first task is for people to submit accounts. If they do not submit accounts, we have nothing to talk to them about. The first step of that is them meeting their statutory requirement. I, as Chairman, wrote before Christmas to every body and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Seán Fleming: I want to ask the witnesses about one or two small items on various agencies. I am looking at page 19. What is compensation for personal injuries criminally inflicted?

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