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Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Yes. What prompted the action of 24 February?

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: We will get to Resilience Ireland at around 8 p.m. Do not worry.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Okay. I will ask the questions and you will give the answers.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: That is the way it works.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Good.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Of course, but my point is that I said we would ask questions about Resilience Ireland later. That is what I was referring to. I ask Mr. O'Brien to go ahead.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Genuinely for accuracy, who are the two committee members to whom Mr. O'Brien refers?

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I know I am moving on, Chairman.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I could be back a third or fourth time, yet. To be fair to the witness in relation to this, Mr. O'Brien is accepting that was the trigger, in his mind. The committee meeting of 12 February -----

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: The committee meeting was on 12 February, there was Deputy John McGuinness's contribution in the Dáil, and the Sunday Independent article. At this time there had also been a disclosure. There was all of that. Subsequently, the Committee of Public Accounts happened, then the HSE wrote to the Garda.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Well sorry, the solicitors acting on the HSE's behalf wrote on 6 March. Basically, that package of activity was very much in the public domain and as a consequence, then the solicitors acting on the HSE's behalf went to the Garda after years to ask to publish this. Is that fair?

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: What is inaccurate? What did I say there that is inaccurate?

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I am talking about Devine specifically. The issue in relation to the health committee, what was happening in this committee, the stuff that was appearing in the media after a period of years, these all pressurised - that is the only way it can look here - the HSE into finally asking the Garda. Something must have happened. Why did this not happen three, or two or six months earlier? Why?

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: To be fair, we are splitting hairs here, while there was only mention of this from the committee - and I have read the transcript - to be fair while those on the other side did not mention the whistleblower they were still answering questions that we all knew what they were talking about. That does not really matter.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Two of the Deputies have spoken about the panel and the five people. I will not get into it because they have asked all the questions I would have. I do not think it adds up. It seems that evidence was given and as a consequence of that evidence, retrospectively an argument has to be put forward. Looking at the Devine report, it does not add up for me and, I believe, for all members of...

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I understand that. However, in the past they just did not work to the level required.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I agree with Mr. O'Brien. I am just summarising. In fairness, procurement simply did not work 100% the way it should have in the past. My concern, which is for another day and not for this, is that there is a cultural issue here. If it happened here, it obviously happened across the board in other cases, where work or investigations had to be done quickly.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: That did not make it right.

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