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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that the views being expressed are validly and genuinely held by the Department. I am just trying to tease out and test them. We will not fall out because of any of them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I will need the support of the Department and Central Bank in progressing this Bill through the Houses and signed into law by the President, because that is my intention. The regulatory framework for banks and vulture funds are not the same, which I believe underpins some of the assessment from the Department of Finance and the Central Bank. I do not dispute that. If Mr. Tobin had to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I think the smile on Mr. Tobin's face reveals a little more.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I ask Mr. Sibley to respond to the question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I would, and do, give the same advice to individuals. I will not push Mr. Sibley any further on the question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: That is a valid point. The issue here is that those who work at the coalface with borrowers and distressed debtors, for example, MABS, which was referenced in both opening statements, tell us that in approximately 75% of cases where loans have been sold advisors report that the sale has both slowed progress and limited options available to the borrower. That is the reality. If we were...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I do not have the report in front of me, but from memory, one of the comments made about the report was that it is early days in terms of the vulture funds because the transfers only took place recently. Regardless of the CCMA, this creates a timing factor. Various steps have to be taken before the necessary legal proceedings.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Since the report there has been a doubling of the number of family homes sold to vulture funds. We discussed this matter with the Central Bank last week. MABS, which is involved now, or the Irish Mortgage Holders Association or the Free Legal Advice Centre, are all telling us a very different story. Those organisations are saying that this is not good. In 75% of cases they say that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: My concern here is not just for the individuals whose loans are about to be sold off. The Central Bank report of last April discussed those in long-term arrears of more than 720 days. The Central Bank itself has said that more than 50% of those people are likely to lose ownership of their homes, through voluntary or non-voluntary repossession. That is a significant number of people, and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: May I ask a couple of questions to finish?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I apologise because I had to take something in the Dáil Chamber for a few minutes but I will read the transcript of the portion of the meeting I missed. I particularly welcome the comments in the Central Bank's submission in appendix 3. It goes into the detail of some of the definitions and issues around enforcement and regulations, which is helpful as we continue to look at this...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I am only one member of the committee, albeit the sponsor of the Bill. I have talked about the issues which the Bill was crafted not to impact and those need to be clarified, but if that was accepted, why would there then be a need for a wider impact study? I understand that if the intention of the Bill was to impact on securitisation, or ECB collateral, or different ways in which the banks...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I asked a question earlier and I want to tease it out. If the special purpose vehicle that bought the 6,000 loans from Permanent TSB decided tomorrow morning to notify customers that it would increase the standard variable rates by 2.5%, what could the Central Bank do?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The point is the banks have the power. The banks and the funds have the power.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Has the Central Bank ever seen a standard variable rate mortgage that limited the ability of the bank?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: This is the point. We talk about regulation and the code of conduct and so on. I accept that they are in place. I accept the two entities are regulated in exactly the same way, although special purpose vehicles might be exempt from the regulation but I will highlight the issue another way. Is AIB likely to put up my standard variable rate loan by 2.5%? Which organisation is most likely...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate what Mr. Sibley is saying. We have a sale by a main bank in this State to a vulture fund. It involves buy-to-let mortgages that were in arrears. The bank could do the same thing in the morning. It could have done exactly the same thing but it has not done so. However, I understand the vulture fund is doing so. Contractually, the fund has the right to instruct the borrower...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I am familiar with that and obviously a rent receiver in a place where a landlord is not passing on repayments is completely legitimate, but that is not the issue. This is nearly a strategic default. The idea is that the fund calls in all of the arrears within 30 days. That is next to impossible for someone who is trying to manage through an arrangement. These individuals are making...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I asked Mr. Sibley earlier about the April report by the Central Bank. The report identified that more than 50% of those in long-term arrears of two years or more are likely to lose possession of their homes either through voluntary surrender or repossession. Does the Central Bank still hold to those figures?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I have a final question for Mr. Sibley and two questions for the Department. Does Mr. Sibley believe that a loan that is performing and has not fallen into arrears should be allowed to be sold? Should there be protection for such a loan so that it cannot be sold on without consent? Such safeguards are already in place in Austria and Denmark.

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