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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: That is exactly what I was about to point out.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: How can Mr. Culhane stand over his statement that actions were taken when that is contradicted by the report itself?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: Before Mr. Nugent comes in, Mr. Culhane made a very interesting point there. He said there were weekly PAF meetings on this.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: I know, but there were weekly meetings about the 2008 report. Were there?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: Surely, Mr. Culhane would have been aware of it as chief financial officer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: I did not say Mr. Culhane had attended them but he was aware meetings were taking place.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: As such, Mr. Culhane was not aware that any progress was being made on a weekly or monthly basis from 2008 onwards in addressing the issues which were so glaringly obvious to him as chief financial officer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: Does Mr. Culhane feel the response post-2008 under his role as chief financial officer was appropriate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: In other words, the executive summary for Mr. Culhane is he did his job, he pushed it up the line and nothing happened.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: I understand that. I have a final question. Was Mr. Culhane happy regarding the issues that arose in the 2008 report as chief financial officer and the actions taken? He was aware because he assigned the staff and all of that, as he said earlier. Was he happy with the way in which those actions were implemented? It is a "Yes" or "No" answer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: I appreciate Mr. Culhane's honesty.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: In fairness, Mr. Culhane is saying he put it up the line, he was not happy with the way it was dealt with, as he said on the record of the committee, and the actions were not implemented. Not only were they not implemented but some of them were actually reversed according to the audit.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: There was a subset in between. Mr. Nugent, briefly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: My next question is to the Department of Justice and Equality. I asked earlier if anyone was aware before June 2015. I note the Department was not aware.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: The Department of Justice and Equality was unaware of any financial irregularities in Templemore before June 2015.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: Yes, but there was not previously. I understand that Mr. O'Callaghan is only representing the Department of Justice and Equality today and cannot be holistic. I must declare for absolute transparency that I am from the town as Mr. O'Callaghan and I know him. The Department was not aware of the financial irregularities in Templemore training college in June 2015.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: That is absolutely unbelievable. I am sorry. I respect that it is the answer. It is not a reflection on Mr. O'Callaghan. The idea, however, that since 1960, as well as since 1983 and the Walsh report which the Commissioner referenced herself, the Department had no idea there were financial irregularities in Templemore is, frankly, incredible. I will move to some specific questions and I...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: Of course. I am not trying to catch you out.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: Have you any date in 2015? I will not get the witness to stick to it and he can come back to us later.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Alan Kelly: I will not hold you to that as, to be fair, you are working from memory. I respect that.

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