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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: I have given Mr. Breslin my opinion. I will return to this issue during Leaders' Questions with the Tánaiste because this is a matter for Government to sort out. I refer to the figures on page 3 of Mr. Pollock's opening statement. The Cathaoirleach helpfully dealt with some of this at the start of the meeting.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: That context was necessary, however long it took. I am again unhappy with the way in which these figures were presented, and I will explain why. The February 2017 figure of €983 million includes the €637 million going to the contractors and separate moneys for the other areas which were not covered by the contractors. This means that the overall cost was €983 million....

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: I do not have a lot of time and, to be fair, that does not answer my question. As the Cathaoirleach also noted, when looking at the figures, it should be a like-for-like comparison. The €983 million was the overall cost but the €1.4 billion underneath is not. The overall cost is closer to €1.7 billion. I asked a straight question. Mr. Pollock has answered the...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: Does Mr. Costello know what the figure is?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: Will he give it to me?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: Let us just look at the bottom-line figures. BAM gave a figure in its tender because this was a bidding process. The bidding process involved a number of tenderers. I understand BAM's tender came in well under the other tenders. I believe it was €130 million lower. In terms of bottom-line figures and percentages, BAM's tender was for €637 million. How much more than this...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: How much is that? Is it more than €100 million?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: Ironically, and coincidentally, that is almost the same amount of money as the difference between that company and the next highest bidder in the tender process.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: I have two short questions, and I will return to this matter later. I have to take Leader's Questions in the Dáil. Mr. Pollock spoke about a report from 2017, which examined savings. Was cutting the Blanchardstown satellite centre ever considered?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: Or an alarm.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: Take the item out and destroy it.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: That is our briefing document.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: The witnesses might not have that.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: I will follow on from that, a Chathaoirligh. I will not go back over the individual capital projects because Mr. Breslin has given the rationale why he does not want to do the tour of Ireland, as he described it. Obviously for some projects to be delivered on time, the design work will have to be done. Without getting into specific projects, can the hospital groups and local hospitals...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: Again, given that the Department understood the sensitivity and importance of a number of these projects, has that or can that be communicated to hospital groups? I mean that while we are waiting to sign off on the capital funding for all of these projects, one can work ahead and press ahead with the design work and everything that can be done. Does Mr. Breslin understand what I am saying?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: Obviously some issues are affordable.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: I will revert to the overall cost. While I think we have arrived at this point with a clear view of what are the costs, it would have been better had we got the breakdown at the very start. I do not understand why it could not have been provided to us. I do not want to be unfair but maybe it was a tactic to not provide it to us so we would spend almost all of the morning trying to get...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

David Cullinane: Mr. Breslin will have dealt with this issue at the health committee, and possibly today. When did he personally become aware of the difference in the €983 million in the 2017 costs and the €1.433 billion in the capital bill subtotal? The difference is quite substantial and is at the heart of why people are annoyed about this issue. When he first become aware of the increase?

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