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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: This is an NTMA document. The witnesses must be able to tell me to what that chart is referring.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: The bank shares would have been worth very little. What does Mr. O'Kelly mean by liquid assets other than cash? This is the agency's chart. There seems to quite an amount shown in the green segment of it during 2012 and 2013.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: The agency needs to come back to us on this. This is its annual report. The witnesses should know these charts off by heart given that they have inserted them in it. I ask that they send us a detailed note explaining that. If a member of the public's reading of this report was similar to my reading of it, they would take from that chart that we were awash with cash all during the troika...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am reading-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: From 2012 the figures go from €150 billion up to €200 billion. There is at least €50 billion in debt in that. We had the National Pensions Reserve Fund, NPRF, at that time. Will Mr. O'Kelly come back to us on this and explain that? On the face of it, it looks as if we had far more cash when we all thought we were broke.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I have turned over the page and in respect of funding and maturities, it looks as if approximately €50 billion in funds are due to mature in the period from 2018 to 2020 and €10 billion has been included there. Is Mr. O'Kelly comfortable the agency can meet that? There is quite an amount in maturities coming up in 2019 and 2020.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. O'Kelly spoke about rising interest rates.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Okay. Is that the current cash balance? I know this annual report covers up to the end of December last year. Has the agency's cash balance gone up a lot this year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. O'Kelly needs to send us a chart in respect of the period of the chart on page 13 of the annual report showing us the cash balances then and the current cash balances.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. O'Kelly said the agency's cash balance has increased quite an amount in the past six months.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. O'Kelly might send us that information in order that we would have a reasonable understanding of it. I read an article carrying the headline "Gordon MRM keeps €480k PR deal with NTMA". It states "Gordon MRM has beaten away competition to retain the prestigious public relations account with the National Treasury Management Agency". What does it do for that €480,000?...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I saw that newspaper article written by a reputable journalist recently. I note it states "The contract represents a impressive double win ... earlier this year the firm retained ... [the NAMA] ... contract". It probably covers a few years.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Probably. Mr. O'Kelly might forward us the information on that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am not suggesting it is the annual fee. That is the headline. I want a breakdown of that. The firm is doing a good job for the agency. The witnesses appear before this committee every year and every time they do or they talk or give a press conference, they give the a good impression of the agency to most people in terms of how much it is has refinanced and that the interest it has on...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is there any mechanism, internationally, to offer some incentive to bring forward debt that is not due to mature for some time?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Does the agency look at that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Every day?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: That is the chart I would have loved to have seen in the annual report. Will Mr. O'Kelly give us the €200 billion debt broken down in terms of how much of it is being financed at under 1%, now that some of it is under 1%, how much of it is being financed at between 1% and 2%, how much of it is being financed at between 2% and 3%, and all the way up? Is there much of the older debt on...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: So there is nothing out there that is more than 6%.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: In 2019-2020. Will you send us on that chart because-----

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