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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Will the Chairman advise me when I have five minutes remaining?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: I have one question for Ms Feehily. If I had more time, I would have many more. Given that Ms Feehily has been following the evidence to the committee, she will know we are all "mithered" from it, having gone through days of evidence and thousands of pages of documents, does she have confidence in the financial controls that she has seen in place in An Garda Síochána?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: I actually read the Act, but the Policing Authority has the role to advise the Department. Based on the evidence Ms Feehily has seen, what advice would she give the Department now?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Would Ms Feehily be alarmed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: That if fair enough. I will now address my questions to the Department officials. We have had a whole load of evidence from the officials. From the last time the officials gave evidence, I have to say I felt very underwhelmed and concerned at the evidence given. Having reread the transcript, I am going to repeat some of the questions as I thought the answers that were given were not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: That is fine. I have a few quick fire questions. My next question is addressed to the Secretary General. In the last piece of evidence, the Secretary General stated there was a meeting of which he had no memory in June 2008 at which Mr. John Leamy and Mr. Seán Aylward were present. I presume that in the intervening period he has had a chance to consult with Mr. Aylward and Mr. Leamy...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Why not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: I understand that, but surely Mr. Waters can pick up the phone and ring them.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Why?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Is Mr. Waters saying that in order to find out what happened at a meeting, at which he was present, he is refusing to ring the people who were at the meeting?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Why is it inappropriate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: I still do not see how that is inappropriate. It would help Mr. Waters.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: But the meeting did take place.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Fine. The issue is that Mr. Waters feels it is inappropriate to ask his predecessor, Mr. Aylward, and Mr. Leamy, a retired CAO of the Garda Síochána what happened at a meeting that seemed to be fairly crucial, but which he does not remember.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: I fail to understand what is inappropriate about asking somebody about this. The person was paid by the taxpayer for the guts of 40 years, became Secretary General of the Department on a very high income, and Mr. Waters is saying to me that it is inappropriate to ring him and ask him what went on at the meeting, of which Mr. Waters has no recollection.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Answer my question, what is inappropriate about that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Explain why.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: I think Mr. Waters should reflect on that. The date this committee was set up is disputed some say it was on 2 July and others say it was on 27 July. In fairness, Ms Anne Barry clarified in the last session that the Department of Justice and Equality was made aware of this committee verbally on 1 October and subsequently there is a letter dated 2 October. Who was nominated to represent the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: What is his grade?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Was he the appropriate person at the appropriate grade - given the seriousness of these issues - no reflection on him?

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