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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: It strikes me there is something fundamentally wrong when it is not even acknowledged or declared. Conflicts of interest can be avoided if there is a declaration. There is not even a declaration. Questions were asked of Mr. Breslin and others when they were here previously regarding conflicts of interest and a relationship between PwC and this particular project. To my knowledge we were...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: It was well aware of that. Why were we not told?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: The committee might take a different view. That is up to the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: The Department has responsibility for healthy living-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: -----and healthy eating.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: A Big Mac, fries and a Coke would not be part of that I would imagine. How is it that McDonald's, of all places, would be part of funding this?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Yes. It is Ronald McDonald House.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: I do not dispute the quality of any service delivered but Mr. Breslin must accept that for some people this is about the national children's hospital and children's health. We have seen several conflicts previously with regard to cigarette companies sponsoring sports. Eventually we saw this was flawed and that there was an issue. Does Mr. Breslin not see any issue or concern with regard to...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Not as the company-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: I do not think we can divorce the two.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: I certainly would not agree with that. They are very well connected. Philanthropy was meant to form a significant role in funding this project but the philanthropic funds that were anticipated did not come onstream. Is Ronald McDonald House one of the only few that did come on board?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: At the previous meeting, Mr. Breslin gave us a breakdown of what was estimated with regard to philanthropic funding and what was achieved. At that point, he acknowledged we do not have what we had hoped.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: The two-stage process has been talked about an awful lot. Can Mr. Breslin quickly crystallise for us what it involved, especially the second part? Am I right in saying that phase 1 did not have a fully worked out design cost?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Was the underdevelopment of that design a product of the two-stage process or was it a failure elsewhere?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: What we heard from Mr. Quinn and what was in the PwC report was that all of these design packages came in at the tail end, as Mr. Quinn put it. Did the escalation take place then, when the board really became aware of increased costs in respect of the design? Is that what Mr. Quinn was saying earlier?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Was that a consequence of the two-stage process? Was the two-stage process inherently flawed for the project that was being developed?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Would it be fair to say that the main driver of the two-stage process was timeframes and that there was pressure to get this done quickly?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Going back to the PwC report in respect of accountability, the question of sufficient tension between the executive and the board was mentioned earlier. Mr. Quinn says there was sufficient challenge and Mr. Farragher says the same but PwC says different. How did PwC arrive at a different conclusion? Mr. Farragher was saying earlier, although he did not fully expand on it, that he felt...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: While Mr. Farragher says it could be a little bit better, PwC was very clear that there was not sufficient challenge between the executive and the board. It is a bit concerning, when the main thing we want is to have learnings, if there is not acceptance that there was a difficulty or an issue and if we can casually dismiss the PwC recommendations. Mr. Barry earlier on said the...

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