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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Okay. You might answer the question, please.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Okay. Let us run through this meeting. It took place on 27 July, the letter was from 24 July. We have evidence given to us here from Mr. Ruane that he has a note from 30 June where he was informed by Mr. Barrett that Mr. Dunne had informed the Commissioner of the issues around Templemore on 30 June. We have a meeting that took place on 2 July. It is now under dispute as to whether that...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: It is not all hearsay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: With all due respect, there is other evidence, namely, the letter of 8 July. This is not hearsay. It is just a letter saying this happened.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: We will have to make a judgment call here. We are hearing contradictory evidence all over the place about this committee and about 27 July. We will have to make a decision based on the evidence given to us. I have some final few questions. Does the Commissioner believe that full co-operation has been given to Niall Kelly?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: When Deputy Commissioner Ó Cualáin wrote to Mr. Kelly asking him to come in and look at these issues in March, was he subsequently given access to all accounts and everything?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Was he given access to the European accounts that are now under discussion?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: That is not my question. My question was not whether it was instructed that he be given access but whether he was given access to the European accounts, which Mr. Kelly briefed the Commissioner on over the last weekend.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Fine.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: So-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: That is okay. Go ahead.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Why was he not made aware of the Cabra account? The Commissioner might ask Mr. Ó Cualáin as well. He has been in front of us twice. Why did he not make us aware that he was not made aware of the Cabra account?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Yes. Fine.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: You are the witness. They are here to support you.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Fine. Ask him.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: We have rules and procedures inside here, Commissioner, so please answer the question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: No, I am not. I am asking the Commissioner a very specific question. She is the Accounting Officer and might please remember that. We need to know if the internal auditor, Mr. Niall Kelly, was given access to everything from March 2016. The Commissioner has now given evidence that subsequently he got information on the Cabra account. Why was that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Does that not concern the Commissioner? Listen, we have reports now of what is potentially fraud. Now we find out that the internal auditor - at the same time he was given access to everything else - was not given access to the Cabra account, and the Commissioner does not know about it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Let me-----

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