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Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: Absolutely, very much so. I thank the Comptroller and Auditor General for that. Turning to Mr. McDonagh and his statement on that, from the sound of it, this was not easy from the get-go - and that is probably an understatement if we knew every bit of detail to it. I refer to the receiver who resigned in May 2020. How many asset sales was that receiver who was appointed to that...

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: From that, I presume that points to and illustrates the exceptional nature of this type of sale that NAMA was engaged in.

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: When was the receiver initially appointed?

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: So he had been undergoing quite a bit of work up to the point of resignation.

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: That is not unique in the work of NAMA though, right?

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: I understand Mr. McDonagh does not want to identify the person or persons involved. On the assets, are they located in a particular geographical area in the country or are they spread out across the country?

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: Okay. Mr. McDonagh mentioned that the sales agent also reported that a sales agent could not be found to actually take on the portfolio, is that correct? Was that before or after the local authority declined elements of the portfolio?

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: I presume sales agents outside of that county were sought.

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: Through that, of the sales agents and the local authority, who exactly came under pressure and intimidation? The phrase Mr. McDonagh used was "threats and intimidation".

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: Just the receiver.

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: Were they reported to An Garda Síochána?

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: What struck me was the Comptroller and Auditor General said that NAMA confirmed that it does not have a set process for dealing with incidents of alleged intimidation of its staff or agents on the basis that it is something that is very rare. "Very rare" does not mean it has not happened before. Maybe it has not happened to this level, if I am reading between the lines here. Given the fact...

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: It still does not make NAMA immune though.

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: Roughly, when was that?

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: Okay. This is my point. NAMA was set up in 2009 by statute, and from 2009 all the way to the current day, incidents have taken place and a receiver resigned in May 2020. Did nobody think, for Mr. McDonagh's sake, that of his staff and the agents NAMA is employing, to put in place a procedure around engaging with the proper authority, An Garda Síochána, to report these incidents?...

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: I am a little under time pressure but go ahead.

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: I am not suggesting NAMA would not engage but given the history and even though it is rare, we are talking about 2012, if not before that, all the way through to the current day, and NAMA should have a procedure. I will leave that there and will move on to other elements. On NAMA's contribution to social and affordable stock, I have spoken before about the valuable contribution that NAMA...

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: Okay. Does Mr. McDonagh have it in percentages?

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: He can send it in a note, that is fine. I refer to the assets themselves, and NAMA is heading towards the latter end of disposing of the assets and great progress has been made. In terms of assets NAMA inherited, maybe before Mr. McDonagh's time, was planning permission maintained on assets that NAMA had secured all the way through? By that I mean large swathes of land that had full...

Public Accounts Committee: NAMA Financial Statements 2022 and Special Report 116 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (28 Sep 2023)

Cormac Devlin: I accept the point about the change of zoning. That is understandable. Were personnel appointed by NAMA to ensure the value of those assets were maintained by maintaining the planning permissions? I hear what Mr. McDonagh is saying, in that there could be good, bad and indifferent types of planning on certain sites but, ultimately, as he knows, they are far more valuable with planning than...

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