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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: Amendment No. 1 proposes to amend section 93 of the Consumer Credit Act 1995, which deals with the granting of moneylending licences by the Central Bank. It replaces "the cost of credit to be charged being excessive" with "the cost of credit being usurious or excessively high", terms which are then defined under amendment No. 3. I oppose amendment No. 1 first on the basis that, taken on its...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: A major player may have left the market but there are still 36 licensed operators in the market, with 32 actively providing credit in the market. One loss is significant because it was a substantial company but there are still 100 different registered products out there and available to people outside of those offered by the company that has left. It is important to point that out. We want...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: I understand what the Deputy has said. One of the key elements of what we propose builds on the original legislation, the Private Members’ bill drafted some time ago. It goes without saying that the longer the period a person has a loan from one of these moneylenders, the more interest he or she will pay over time. One of the proposals we suggest is the loan would be restricted to...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: Many people have talked about the APR of interest in this debate. It is not appropriate when we are dealing with loans of a duration of fewer than 12 months, which are covered in the Bill we will be discussing later. Some loans might only be for three months or six months, and one cannot do the equation of an annual interest rate on a loan that is not an annual loan. Generally, and the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: I am dealing with what is before us here. I will be happy to discuss that when it comes-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: The core of our legislation will be that it will be based on the rate set in the legislation.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: No, I am not-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: It will be €1,560.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: No, I did not. I have it in my notes. I am well aware of it.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: Correct. It is obvious where people should go for loans of that nature. We agree that it should be the credit union.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: It would be in the order of €500, as I have said.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: In the order of €500. However, the Deputy went on to make a point, and I thank the committee secretariat for advising the Department on this issue, that while we may oppose amendments and sections, it is important that the citation of the Bill remains here at the end of this process, so the Bill continues to be alive.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: There are only two sections in the Bill as proposed.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: I am saying there are two sections in the original Bill. I am giving the Deputy my views at this stage. We will be retaining section 2 of the Bill on the advice of the secretariat of the committee so that the legislation exists. The specifics with regard to the amendments will have been voted down but the Bill will not have been because, as the Deputy rightly pointed out, this committee...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: As the Deputy is well aware, the reason we have the legislation is that there are many products on the market and many of them are above the cap that both the Deputy and the Government propose. The net effect of the legislation and even the legislation we will bring forward this evening will be an average of a 13% reduction in the current interest rate. Many moneylenders charge 60%, 70% or...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: The amendment has the effect of adding collection charges to the list of charges that are prohibited under moneylending agreements. I am in agreement with the Deputy that collection charges should be prohibited. However, from a practical and procedural point of view, I object to the changes being framed as they are here and favour the more comprehensive Government Bill which also addresses...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: I said it was about €500.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Seán Fleming: To €480.

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