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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes, there is.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: The witnesses can understand that level of detail is not our day job. We only touch on this occasionally. Well in advance of the meeting, I ask the witnesses between them to have the note sent to us so when we arrive at the meeting we will already have the information, rather than people having to ask questions about it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: We must now look at Mr. O'Connor's financial statement. One of the items on our agenda today is the Housing Agency's financial statement for 2017. Nobody has asked a question on it and it would be remiss of me to allow the meeting to conclude without going there. I am going straight to page 37. I want Mr. O'Connor to read the opening paragraph of the statement on internal controls signed...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: The first paragraph, on page 37, states:In respect of Procurement during 2017, expenditure of €1.246m was incurred in relation to goods and services where procedures employed did not comply with procurement guidelines. The services employed related to legal services, insurances and temporary resources. We need to go through each of these. Did any of this relate to the pyrite...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: None of it. Approximately what is the payroll bill in the Housing Agency, to the nearest million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: The €3 million in payroll is not affected by this procurement issue. The pyrite issue of €25 million is not affected by this procurement issue. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: That is €33 million minus €28 million. This €1.2 million happened in respect of €5 million of the Housing Agency's purchases. Can I take it none of it had to do with the National Building Agency or the agency's pension costs?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am ruling things out, not ruling them in. I want to rule out, from page 42 of the Housing Agency's expenditure statement, the headings under which this breach of procurement procedures occurred. None of it affected the pension costs column, did it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: It did not come out of the depreciation costs column?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: It has nothing to do with depreciation. Was any of it due to office administration costs?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: I will let Mr. O'Connor in but I want to rule out a few things. What was the "Payment to the Exchequer", referred to in note 5.8 in the financial statement? Was the procurement issue related to the payment to the Exchequer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: Was it in connection with the heading, "Fingal costs"?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: Did it relate to the heading, "HomeBond staff and services"?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: We will get to the area Mr. O'Connor wants to talk about, but I want to rule out all these items first. It certainly has to do with legal and professional costs and we will come to the specifics. There were property acquisitions and then legal and professional separate to that, and then there were office administration costs and some employment costs. My impression is that, out of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: Organisations come before the committee that might have €1 million outside of procurement guidelines but it could be out of purchases of €50 million.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: How come purchases were €100 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is that separate from the statement of income and expenditure on page 42?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: Has Ms Jordan a page number?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is it note 18 on page 66?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

Seán Fleming: Did this happen every other year as well? This was the only year I looked at. Is this a recurring issue?

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