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Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Will Mr. Moran repeat that? Is that the cost to the Exchequer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: I am trying to figure out what is the actual cost to the Exchequer. It may have no bearing on the Irish State, depending what happens with the escrow fund. It may have a substantial bearing if we were to lose the case, ironically. I note from the Comptroller and Auditor General's report that €4.4 million is associated with costs to the State and other statutory bodies, apart from...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: I note an issue regarding staff allocation. The Minister had delegated a number of banking system functions to the NTMA. That delegation was revoked in August 2011. The NTMA banking unit has now been seconded to the Department of Finance. The staff allocation appears to still be attributed to the NTMA. Why is this the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: It is the same pot of money essentially.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: These are people who currently are working in the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: With regard to salary scales, would they earn the same as people in the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: But they are working in the Department of Finance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Could there be a situation whereby two people doing the same work in the Department are on different salary scales?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: How many staff are we talking about in total?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Does Mr. Moran not see a reason to regularise it in any way?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: I do not have much time left but I want to touch on the issue of airline costs. Will Mr. Moran give a short background again as to what the dispute was about and the parties that received payments.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: It was a €10 charge.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: What were the legal costs? We know the settlement costs were substantial but what were the legal costs of the Department in that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Does Mr. Moran know if the matter is closed or are there additional funds to be paid?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: I want to come in quickly on a different matter before the Chairman cuts me off. Ireland's contribution to the EU budget in 2019 amounted to €2.4 billion. Does the Department have the net figure for offsetting our receipts from EU sources and the corresponding estimates for this year yet?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2019
Chapter 17 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
(5 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Do we know if it will be similar for this year in 2020?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: We could bamboozle people with reference to the Committee on Procedures and standards and committees and all of this type of thing. Essentially, the procedures and Standing Orders which are in place state the Committee of Public Accounts cannot discuss a pertinent, ongoing, current situation without the approval of Government. That undermines exactly what the Committee of Public Accounts...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: To clarify, what we did in respect of the Department of Education is what we are now agreeing to do. We wrote to the Department asking it to attend. I do not know what the mechanism was, but through that process the committee received a letter from the Ceann Comhairle informing us in blunt terms that we were not to discuss the issues in respect of which we had invited the Department. We...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Did we write to him first?

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