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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: There used to be a statistics company called Gamma that did it. Is it still around?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Are data from the Department of Social Protection used? I do not mean data about individual houses but about a general area. Back in the 1990s, there was a company called Gamma from which one could get the statistical profile of an area, how many people were unemployed, how many people were in rented accommodation, and so on. Is that the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: It is information from various Departments.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Does Ms Mannion have that figure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I will bring the Deputy back in later in the meeting.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Can we get a detailed note of how DEIS status is assessed overall? There are anomalies in it. Like everything, it is good when it works. By and large, it works, but there will be problems with it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Briefly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Deputy Dillon is next and after that we will have a short break.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I thank the witnesses. We will suspend for ten minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: The next speaker is Deputy Catherine Murphy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: We will come back to it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: We will come back for a second, and possibly a third, round. There are some questions I myself have on the clerk of works issue at the hearing in October 2020. It is well-established now that the problems that arose in large building projects in the eight or ten years before that arose, were not - the design of the building was not changed - because the architect fell down but because...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Loftus responded, "Yes." I am just asking about it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: No, no. Hold on a second. There is a contractor engaged. There is a design team or project team. I understand all that, but that was not where the problem was arising. The problem was arising because, to put it straight, there was not somebody there on behalf of the taxpayer or the Department. I mentioned that here two years ago. It may seem like an old-fashioned suggestion but it...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: That is okay. That is straightforward. That is welcome. That clarifies that. On small schools, I have a bit of a concern. I read the material in respect of the issues we raised two years ago. It is a bit flaky in terms of what happens with the smaller schools. Mr. Loftus will appreciate that with smaller schools, you will not have a clerk of works standing on the site all day. He...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: To make sure that the wall tiles are being put up and things of that nature.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: All right.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Move away from the wall tiles in that case.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I know.

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