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Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: Did the report comment on the view that some homes did not communicate meaningfully with residents and families? Did the expert panel offer an opinion on that?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: Okay. The report also refers to an absence of an integrated infection prevention and control strategy linking nursing homes and the Department of Health and the HSE. Is that correct?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: I thank Professor Twomey. This report is one of the best reports we have seen come before this committee or any committee. The work that was done and the very clear recommendations will serve us well if they are implemented. It is a very thorough report. To be frank, it is hard to disagree with any of its recommendations. We discussed the matter with HIQA last week and we got further...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: I thank Ms Doherty. I again commend the work that was done by the authors of the report. It is a comprehensive report, and if it is implemented, it will serve us well. I commend those who were party to this report. The committee will publish its final report. The expert panel's report needs to be reviewed on a regular basis by the joint committee on health, when it is established. We...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: We are back in public session. I welcome officials from the Department of Health and the representatives from the HSE to continue our consideration of the Covid-19 expert panel's report on nursing homes. From the Department of Health we have Dr. Kathleen MacLellan, assistant secretary, who is presenting from committee room 2. Dr. MacLellan is very welcome. By video link we have Mr. Niall...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: I thank Dr. MacLellan. I invite Mr. Walsh to make an opening statement if he so wishes.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: I thank Mr. Walsh. Today, we meet in the Seanad Chamber. I remind members and witnesses that this session of our meeting must finish at 2.30 p.m. as the Seanad Committee on Procedure and Privileges is due to meet here at 3 p.m. Therefore, I must be very strict with people about time, including with myself who, as the first questioner today, has ten minutes. Can I assume that all of the...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: I shall first direct my questions at Mr. Walsh. The HIQA report relays and outlines concerns that were expressed by the chief inspector in terms of nursing homes. Some of the concerns were as follows: the absence of clinical governance in most nursing homes; staffing levels not what they should be; a difficulty in maintaining staffing levels in the event of sudden and unplanned absences;...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: May I put a direct question to Mr. Walsh? One of the key issues arising from both reports concerns clinical governance and the role and authority of HIQA to examine issues in nursing homes. I am not sure whether Mr. Walsh saw the hearing last week when we had HIQA representatives before us. They outlined to us the many exchanges they have had with the Department, the HSE and Ministers...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: If that is the case, we need to go to the Department. We need to know if the system, whether it involves the HSE or the Department, will take the bull by the horns and deal with the issue of clinical governance once and for all. I do not have the time to go through the lengthy letter we got from HIQA that contains a long list of requests that have gone unanswered. Will the Department state...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: We know that. We know the groups that exist. We can have all the implementation groups in the world but we need to know whether there is a commitment by the Department to deal comprehensively, once and for all, with the clinical governance deficit in nursing homes and between HIQA and nursing homes. Is HIQA going to get the necessary powers in this regard?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: Is it the case then that the model being examined is that there will be an agreed clinical guidance framework, in which the Department will have a role in framing, and the responsibility for delivering that will be with the individual nursing homes? Will there be any role for HIQA in respect of that? The most distressing parts of the two reports were the testimonies from family members...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: Before he comes in, as a member of the Oireachtas health committee which will be established in due course, I will certainly be asking that the committee keeps a keen eye on the expert panel report. As the Chairman of this committee said, we can have implementation teams and reports. However, they are only as good as their implementation. The health committee needs to keep a watchful eye...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: I think the audio problem with Mr. Redmond has been fixed so I will give him two minutes to respond to some of the issues that arose in the first two contributions and then move to our next speaker.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: I thank Mr. Redmond. We heard him loud and clear; he might need to adjust his volume a bit. Perhaps audio can have a look at that? The Fianna Fáil speaker is Teachta Devlin, who has ten minutes.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: The next slot is for the Green Party but there is no one from the party present. We will move on to the Labour Party slot.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: I will have to wrap it up there.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: Could the witnesses send on a detailed note to the committee in respect of that matter and the previous one? It would be great if we could be given more information than it is possibly to give verbally. I must move on. I will try my best to keep people to time because we must be out at 2.30 p.m., and I want to be fair to everybody.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: I thank Dr. MacLellan for the response. Before that happens, however, a direct question was asked on the Department's view on whether there should be a full public independent inquiry. I am aware that Dr. MacLellan referred to other matters but it was a distinct and direct question that deserves a distinct response. Could you respond to that please?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Final Report of Nursing Homes Expert Panel (Resumed) (16 Sep 2020)

David Cullinane: We are all aware of the role of HIQA. I need to press Dr. MacLellan on that point because a fair question was asked on whether the Department supports a full independent inquiry into what happened in nursing homes during the pandemic. It is a clear question. She may not be in a position to answer it but if that is the case just say so. We are all aware of the role of HIQA. It is a direct...

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