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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: The reinvestment was required to keep it maintained and up to speed. My question is whether there is going to be an equivalent here to maintain the broadband. Mr. Griffin need not specify a figure, but in respect of what has been done in the MANS to ensure the system continues to be maintained, namely, a percentage of revenue going to maintenance and upkeep, is something similar going to be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: What verification does the Department do on behalf of the taxpayer to make sure that 10% of gross proceeds are reinvested? Who does that audit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: The MANS contract provides the Department with the right to access to financial information in respect of the company. Something similar - I am not saying it is the same - is happening-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: We will be into the beginning of 2019, at least, before a contract will be signed because it is going to take a few months to get to that stage. Given that this all started in 2013, six years will have elapsed between the date the original specifications were drawn up and launched and the signing of the contract. Technology has moved phenomenally in the meantime. If the officials were...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I will open the floor to other members now. Deputy Catherine Murphy is first. We will take the same sequence as this morning.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: You can have as long as you want once the questions are on topic.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: We should be able to get that information. We will write to the NTMA and ISIF for its shareholding and cost. The NTMA has investments in all sorts of industries and appendices of all of its investments at the back of its book every year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: It removed its tobacco, munitions and non-ethical investments recently. It publishes a list. It is a very simple point with regard to ISIF.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: It might even be in it. We will ask the secretariat to make immediate contact with ISIF for this information. We hear something is State backed but we have no idea whether that is a 1% shareholding or a 31% shareholding and I would love to know.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Earlier Mr. Ó hÓbáin said at the end of 25 years if they walk off the pitch, it will be valued and we will buy it back at the value of the product or they can roll it on.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: There is no need to give it by year but Mr. Ó hÓbáin could set it out generally.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I still did not get my proposal of a plus one channel for RTÉ 2 accepted yet.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is the channel on its way? When will we get to ring the bell?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: We will come to cybersecurity in a moment. Broadband dominated today. It was said that the gap-funded model was used for the first broadband scheme. Could the witnesses refresh our memory on what scheme that was?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: What happened at the end of the five years? Did it work out?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I might ask the Comptroller and Auditor General if any other Department used the gap-funded model on the same basis as we are talking about here where the infrastructure is in the ownership of the contractor as opposed to the State.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. McCarthy can come back to us if he finds anything. What if the contractor goes bust and walks away after two or three years? What is the fall-back for the State? Are there guarantees or bonds from the investors? I know we do not want to think about it but things do happen. We have seen it with Carillion so it is not impossible that something could go wrong.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Okay, that is fine. Mr. Griffin mentioned he looked at the cost of purchasing Eir’s assets. Somebody asked if he looked at buying them back and he said he had a look at the value of them. The assets have changed hands four or five times in recent years. One would find out what the company is worth in a split second if one looked at the market capitalisation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Who did the Department get to do that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Who were the advisers?

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