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Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: I thank Mr. Gleeson and all of the crew from the Department for their attendance today. I will start with forestry. My question is simple and relates to the ongoing and persistent licensing crisis. We have never had more resources in the Department. We passed emergency legislation to provide more resources, including more ecologists, but the crisis seems to be getting worse. Could Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: In relation to applications, what is the Department's output?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: How are they divvied out, such as to Coillte versus privateers? If Mr. Gleeson does not have the figures, he might send them in to the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: My information is that there are approximately 150 staff now working in forestry. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: That is a huge increase. We should not be having the problems that we are having. I would appreciate those figures in the coming days. The other question I want to touch on is one Deputy Carthy raised about today's report from the Commission. There are two points about this. The Sea Fisheries Protection Authority, SFPA, spent €1.47 million on legal fees in 2019. It spent...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: When Mr. Gleeson says the Department has worked hard to increase the resources, how many prosecutions have been yielded out of the €1.47 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: It is a specific question. How many successful prosecutions have we had?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: Dr. Beamish should have that. That is not a big question. Surely Dr. Beamish has that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: It seems Dr. Beamish cannot hear me.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: Have we had any?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: I will go back Mr. Gleeson. When Dr. Beamish says "legally independent", there was a statement made this morning to the newspaper that a spokesperson for the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine said the Commission decision was an operational matter for the SFPA and that the Minister is precluded from getting involved in these matters. The SFPA has, in effect, cost us €40...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: So who made that statement? When Mr. Gleeson says they have not cost us €40 million, the report from the Commission and the report in the newspaper says that it is around the €40 million mark.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: So how can it cost us? There is a figure being quoted. Will it reduce quotas?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: They are going to withhold possibly €40 million. That is going to have a significant effect. It may not be a fine but if they withhold it, where is the money going to come from that that €40 million ordinarily funds?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: That will most likely end up again with the Commission because I believe that the legislation is not what it was purported to be on the floor of the Dáil. It is typical of what happens nowadays. I would expect that that legislation will at some point fall, as it did previously, when it is tested. However, that is not for Mr. Gleeson or me.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: I will come back to it. My time is up. I thank the Chairman. I would like to come in again at the end.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: I have one quick question for Mr. Gleeson about the FSPA. To whom is it answerable?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: No. To whom is it answerable? Is it the Minister?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: I do not need Mr. Gleeson to explain. Is it the Minister? I just do not have the time. I am sorry.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(20 Apr 2021)

Verona Murphy: So, basically, we are almost back to square one. I will quote from paragraph 5.1, under conclusions, on page 44 of the 2018 audit report. It is the third last paragraph. It states: "Due to a lack of resources dedicated to control Ireland only met one of eight benchmarks to fully inspect landings of bulk pelagic species in 2017 which undermines the ability to ensure an effective control...

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