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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: How often does it happen? Is it once or twice a year?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: At most.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: It is probably an average of once a year.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: If Ms Boate was to pick out one as a major breach of the terms of the licence, what was it?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: Okay. I wish to return to the issue of the advertising budget. When speaking about the advertising budget Ms Boate indicated that the 98% of unclaimed prizes was useful and went into advertising. I do not wish to misquote Ms Boate but basically she indicated that otherwise all the operator would have was the baseline budget for advertising. What is the baseline budget for advertising for...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: Are the dividends going back to the shareholders covered under the licence?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: Okay. There is nothing there. Is the regulator aware that there was a 9% loan by the operator from its parent company during the period.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: Was it aware that the interest rate was 9%?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: Was it aware that loans were available at or below 1% during that period?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: Loans were available at-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: There were loans available at 0.25% but 1% was a general figure during that period. Does it strike the witnesses as odd that a loan was taken from the parent company for 9% when money could easily be borrowed for 1%?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: If I want a loan to build an extension to my house and can get it at 1%, why in the name of God would I borrow it at 9%?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: The real benefit is that the parent company would receive 9% interest every year.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: It is accumulating there.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: In the accounts of Premier Lotteries for 2017 and 2018, I note the gross profit was €70.2 million in 2018 and €70.4 million in 2017. It had administration expenses of €65 million and finance costs of €35.2 million in 2018, so the company ends up with a loss of €30.7 million. We have to assume advertising is included in those administration costs.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: Finance costs are €35.2 million for that year. Those would seem fairly generous figures. Do the witnesses agree?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: It appears from the consolidated statement of accounts that a substantial loan was taken out by the operator from its parent company at an interest rate of 9% and a substantial amount each year is going to paying that back. It has been capitalised. I accept that. That is what is happening.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: It is important that we know that. That loan was in 2014 and we have ascertained that An Post has a 10% shareholding, An Post Pension Funds has 10% and there are two other parties involved, one a pension fund for Ontario teachers and another that was mentioned this morning.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: There are the two An Post ones.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Brian Stanley: Okay. Ontario Teachers' Pension Fund is doing very nicely out of this.

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