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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: To get on site a year early to show activity, we left ourselves wide open to having a contractor on site without a detailed design and now we are in the situation that when we do see the detailed design, the options are very limited. The witnesses can understand that scenario. It looks like that.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Not the completed. There was no completed-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The total project.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Without the detailed design.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Did Mr. Costello revisit this? Was it the cheapest tender?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I think it was €120 million or €130 million below the others. In the public sector, there is another method of deciding which is the most economically advantageous price. It means if things go up like the PC sums or extra quantities come into play, a contractor might give the lowest price to do the basic work but when the extra items are factored in, it might not be the most...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Was that done?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The board has run the figures on that.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: It has.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Costello understands the question.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: It would have won on both counts.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is probably no harm to clarify that.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: With regard to the contract, I know there is one and the board went in with the first 10% with the detailed design, which is about 10% of the final price, and the other 90% is subject to detailed design. Who decided that was the best way to go? The board could have taken a bit longer and tied it down before it started. Did the board feel rushed to get on site? Who made the decision to...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is Mr. Costello saying the State decided to take all the risk? There was no risk-sharing here.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am nearly finished. I saw the financial report accounts. The European Investment Bank has provided €490 million to support the construction of a new children's hospital and the two paediatric outpatient and urgent care centres. What way does it work? Is the funding of this coming through borrowing? Who got that €490 million? What rate is it? Is it part of the NTMA's...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: At what rate?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: So it comes to the NTMA but it goes into the overall pool of the NTMA. Is the Department going back to it now for the other almost €1.5 billion at that rate?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Does the NTMA have a view on a State agency for Ireland coming out and saying it has a project that will cost a number of million and would like to borrow €490 million through the European Investment Bank at that long-term rate for the major investment? It has been hearing in recent days that it is actually €1.4 billion or €1.7 billion depending on what one looks at....

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Have we damaged our reputation?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: If a business went to a bank to fund 60% of a project and then came back to the bank two years later and said the project had almost doubled in cost, it would not get a good reception.

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