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Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: It did not trouble Mr. O'Rourke at all, even in light of where we have come from and where we have arrived at in the context of the culture at RTÉ. I reiterate I have the height of respect for the vast majority of the staff at RTÉ, but the corporate governance was simply appalling. As someone who has been self-employed for 42 years, I know well about regulations and the laws of...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: That is my understanding of what the figure was, but even if it were €5 million, none of us, including those of us who are self-employed, have the liberty to put aside money to settle with Revenue. It comes down on people like a ton of bricks, they are penalised with penalties and savage interest, and many people are put out of business if they get into that position. How does Mr....

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: That is the most important one of all. Taxpayers in the public service have tax taken out before they even get their money, every business has to settle with Revenue and there is no rescue there.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: There are huge penalties in interest as well.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: I am very concerned about the language, with breaches of the law to be rectified. I do not have a choice if I break the law as an employer and nor does anybody else. I would not have an opportunity, nor would any other business, to deal with the Department of Social Protection around the law. The law is the law, and there was massive law-breaking.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: What does Mr. O'Rourke mean, however, about discussing it with the Department of Social Protection? The law is the law.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: It would need to be, given it is now four years on. After this meeting, I may need to go to a shop, a restaurant or somewhere else. Those kinds of businesses have to operate within the law. RTÉ was not operating within the law. It was committing a flagrant breach of the law and the management was complicit in it. We saw how all the yellow-pack workers were treated. Ms Cusack...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: When?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: I cannot get my head around how Revenue is still allowing employees to be classified as self-employed. That is still ongoing.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: Mr. O'Rourke was probably too long at high-level corporate finance. People like me and other, smaller businesses have to employ an accountant or a tax consultant. They might engage somewhat but get very short shrift and very little time. If they have committed an indiscretion, they get penalised savagely and get no mercy-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: This is what I am comparing with RTÉ. It is a sacred cow and it can employ KPMG and other big, powerful companies that, as Mr. O'Rourke said, negotiate for companies every day of the week, but the little man, na daoine beaga or na mná beaga in business, the backbone of this country, cannot get that. They do not have that latitude.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: What penalty-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: There are two brief questions, if you do not mind. One of Mr. O'Rourke's colleagues may answer on the figure I understood they had put away in anticipation of a settlement of Revenue. The second is directed at Mr. O'Rourke. What penalties has RTÉ incurred from Revenue, the Department of Social Protection or anywhere else at this stage with all that has gone on?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: I am talking about the penalties. What penalties has RTÉ paid?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: I have no faith in that report and neither does the public because they are all insiders. Will somebody please answer-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: I asked what was the figure. Mr. O'Rourke said €21 million. I understood it was a €50 million fund. I was told that figure was put away in anticipation of a settlement with Revenue.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: Just a brief question. Could the witnesses supply the number of private contractors at this time, as against employees? Not today, but could they furnish me with that figure?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: Thank you.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: What does Ms Cusack mean? The Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 was clearly violated and the chair has just said RTÉ did not deal with it properly, but it is not a matter of dealing with it properly. If the laws were broken, and I believe they were badly broken, it is not a matter of dealing with it properly. RTÉ was operating outside the law. I am concerned about the...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Engagement with Chairperson to the Board of RTÉ (12 Jun 2024)

Mattie McGrath: So RTÉ has none paid. That is my point. It is riding along and before the summer break it will get another big cash injection from the taxpayer. All of these are show investigations and nothing short of that. I called all the time for the fraud squad to be in there from the start. Fraud was committed - naked, basic fraud at a large degree. The new chair comes in here and I am...

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