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Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: If we join the regional force and are part of something outside of the United Nations, a young person joining the Irish Army would, as a result of how things may evolve, have to go to Ukraine or somewhere in the Middle East, for example, if detailed? They would have to go.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: That is as per the rules of the Army at the moment.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: I get that.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: I will return to the proposed Bill for a moment. It provides for peacekeeping, conflict prevention and strengthening international security. As I understand it, I hear what Donald Trump says and the Russians would say they are strengthening their international security by what they are doing wrongly in Ukraine. Israel would say it is strengthening security by blasting the middle out of...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: This could turn into anything. As a layperson-----

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: It is pretty messy, as Mr. Power said.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: It can get very messy, as Mr. Power said. I will ask Mr. Power about one issue I am curious about. If you were deployed as part of an international force, you would be under some kind of a joint command. Let us say Ireland and a coalition of the willing made up of some group of countries or other got involved in a mission. It could be commanded by a NATO commander or a German commander....

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: We have been commanded by a NATO commander, have we?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Power is a former Army officer.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: Could I ask Dr. Burke about a commitment given in 2002 by the Taoiseach of the day regarding the Lisbon and Nice treaties? The commitment in question swung a third of the population. Approximately two thirds of the electorate rejected it, but this commitment brought about a swing that meant it was rejected by just one third of the electorate. In one word, does Dr. Burke accept that as a...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: I was asking about commitments regarding the triple lock that were given by the Taoiseach and the Government of the day to get the Nice and Lisbon treaties passed. Does Dr. Burke accept that those commitments were taken by the people who changed their mind as a solemn declaration to the Irish people, or the people of this State anyway? There had been opposition among two thirds of the...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: There are people in this room who changed their-----

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: I will come to all that.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: I am asking Dr. Burke a different question. Does he accept that a solemn declaration given to the people of this State brought about a swing from two thirds to one third? It went the other way around. It swung a third of the population who voted to go in a different direction after they accepted it. Does Dr. Burke believe that it was a solemn declaration to the Irish people living within...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: Was it just bullshit?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: I took it as a solemn declaration.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: Okay, I withdraw it.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: We were hoodwinked.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: Just one other question-----

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025 : Discussion (Resumed) (19 Jun 2025)

Brian Stanley: When Seán Lemass, who was a very active and well-respected Taoiseach, outlined the 1960 Act, he spoke about "duties of a police character on behalf of the United Nations". Does Dr. Burke accept that this characterisation is very different from what is proposed now in this Bill, which is about peace-keeping, conflict prevention and strengthening international security, which, as has been...

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